Was Obama’s Description of Reagan an ‘Extraordinary Historical Fallacy?’

Telegraph: His speech was an interesting mix of pieties and rather pointed omissions : defending the US actions in Afghanistan and the first Gulf War but not the invasion of Iraq under George W Bush. It contained one quite extraordinary historical fallacy. Ronald Reagan was praised for his “efforts on arms control [which] not only improved relations with the Soviet Union, but empowered dissidents throughout Eastern Europe.” In fact, it was Ronald Reagan’s escalation of the arms race (through the much derided “star wars” programme) that bankrupted the Soviet Union, brought about the downfall of communism, and truly liberated the peoples of Eastern Europe. But that message would not presumably have appealed much to the Nobel grandees in Oslo.

December 10, 2009 at 11:17 am - Fox News
Dateline: Oslo, Norway
GeneralPatton   December 10th, 2009 - 11:40 am

“”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"SHOCKING VIDEO of President Obama in the shower… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU <The shower of Power!

Gandhi's Fist   December 10th, 2009 - 11:40 am

Obama doesn’t know history, or lies to suit his political agenda. Dumb or a liar–you deside.

Barry   December 10th, 2009 - 12:14 pm

Where the heck was Obama in the 1980’s???? Arms control by Reagan???
I lived through that time and what I saw was peace through strength – not wishy-washy appeasement of enemies and “let’s all get along” rhetoric!
Gandi’s Fist said it best. Either Obama is a liar or just plain dumb. I suspect the former though.

Boogy Man   December 10th, 2009 - 12:23 pm

What a STUPID man “BIG EARS is !!!!!!!

Tom   December 10th, 2009 - 12:24 pm

….these a$$clowns couldn’t realize the truth if it bit them on the bumm and do not have the ethics or integrity to report or say it if they did….

m miller   December 10th, 2009 - 12:37 pm

Oh he knows. Yet he despises the American people.

m miller   December 10th, 2009 - 12:43 pm

Read what both the Republicans and Democrats are doing to kill American sovereignty? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

R from ID   December 10th, 2009 - 12:51 pm

“Peace through Strength”

What’s new? The rewriting of history continues.

Now the libs are taking one of the greatest conservatives and fitting him into their agenda. That’s like putting a square peg in a round hole. They’ll make it fit. It will be surprising if many of the Fourth Estate question this “story” at all.

RobertB   December 10th, 2009 - 12:55 pm

I was just a kid, but I don’t recall Democrats praising Reagan for anything, let alone “arms control”. In fact, the drumbeat from the left was that Reagan was going to start World War III by getting into an arms RACE with the Soviets.

A race we won, by the way.

And there was no WWIII.

Don't Tread On Me   December 10th, 2009 - 1:10 pm

Obama dare not say that Reagan was smart as a fox and successfully ended the Cold War without a shot having been fired.
No, that brings screams of agony from the Left, doesn’t it?

Don't Tread On Me   December 10th, 2009 - 1:10 pm

Obama dare not say that Reagan was smart as a fox and successfully ended the Cold War without a shot having been fired.
No, that brings screams of agony from the Left, doesn’t it?

Don't Tread On Me   December 10th, 2009 - 1:12 pm

Reagan was better at peace than Obama can ever hope to be.

Rexter   December 10th, 2009 - 1:14 pm

Uh, China’s prosperity is tied to the US’s growing poverty. Just like a globalist to see that as a good thing.

Pat Riot   December 10th, 2009 - 1:16 pm

Everything about this apologetic scumbag is a lie.

So I Say   December 10th, 2009 - 1:19 pm

Breitbarf,just like Faux news,Boss Limbaugh,and Glenn Beck Play you right wingers like a three dollar banjo.

They take advantage of your ignorance and the fact that you wont question what they tell you.TALK ABOUT DRINKING THE KOOL-AID

The collapse of the Soviet Union occurred more for political than for military reasons. That is why the end, when it came, the collapse itself, occured almost entirely without violence.

Gorbachev and Reagan turned out to be in agreement on a surprising point that goes unmentioned in the encomiums of today’s hawks. Both men believed that the abolition of nuclear weapons was not only necessary for the survival of civilization but also possible. At Reykjavik, to the horror of many of their advisers, they set about exploring whether they could make their dream a reality. Reagan observed to an eager Gorbachev that if they started the process of reducing their nuclear forces to zero, and would “stand shoulder to shoulder in telling other nations that they must eliminate their own nuclear weapons, it would be hard to think of a country that would not do so.” Gorbachev agreed.

Why don’t right wingers try to educate yourselves and stop celebrating ignorance, so people will stop just telling you anything.

tom   December 10th, 2009 - 1:20 pm

He stole that line from Hannity!

Veritas   December 10th, 2009 - 1:36 pm

Ah the ignorant, intolerant left. They don’t know history therefore they are doomed to repeat it. Reagan created the term “peace through strength” and “trust but verify”. He called for the tearing down of the Berlin wall and he was able to because of the position of strength he had helped create for our country. He did indeed cause the fall of the Soviet Union by pushing for the “star wars” defense initiative, causing the Soviets to spend (like we are doin now) themselves into oblivion. So for the pinheads that get their history lessons from MSLSD and revisionists, I lived through that time and I am reporting first hand.

RobertB   December 10th, 2009 - 2:13 pm

Yes, Reagan was for nuclear disarmament…but his policy with the Soviets was “You first”. And we could only convince the Soviets to reduce their nuclear weapons from a position of strength, not the position of U.S. weakness and subservience, aka “detente” that Jimmy Carter and President Obama believe is the key to world peace.

racist   December 10th, 2009 - 2:29 pm

hey bama,stfu?

Kit   December 10th, 2009 - 2:41 pm

History FAIL.

So I Say   December 10th, 2009 - 2:47 pm

Some of you are talking from the gut and not from books written about the era.
One of the best is The Collapse of the Soviet Union, 1985-1991 David Marples

Rising Soviet defense spending aimed at competing with the United States may have hastened the economic decline in the Soviet Union, helped convince the Russian generals that they couldn’t compete with U.S. military technology, and strengthened Gorbachev’s hand as he pushed for glasnost. But this end-game challenge of Reagan’s would have been ineffective had 40 years of patient Western containment and engagement not helped undermine the legitimacy of the Communist regime in the eyes of its subjects. It was popular discontent with economic, social, and political progress, and people’s recognition of an appealing alternative system, that finished off the repressive regimes of Eastern Europe, and eventually the whole Soviet Union. No Western threat of force or military occupation forced their collapse.

Ultimately, Reagan did not win the Cold War…he was a bit player in a long drawn out contest between two great superpowers, one of which collapsed due to its poor economic performance, imperial overstretch, and failed political reforms. That Reagan is given so much credit for ending communism is ridiculous, and only adds to his cult of personality that continues to grow with each passing year.

Matt   December 10th, 2009 - 2:54 pm

I guess they do not teach US History in Indonesian schools or if Barack actually grew up here in the states like the rest of us he would have learned and scene history before his very eyes. Instead he shows his very ignorance of the facts.

R from ID   December 10th, 2009 - 3:32 pm

SIS, I don’t think that anyone would argue that the Cold War took place over a 40-year stretch. Which leads to the thought that communism and socialism are doomed for failure, sooner or later. The Soviets were stretched too thin; their economy was in a shambles and eventually, if the US continued a free market economy, the Soviets might have drowned themselves at some point.

Either that or they would have continued to cannibalize the world and it’s satellite countries in order to feed themselves, while keeping their own people in a government run state. If we had continued to wait out this situation, what would the Soviets have done? I don’t think you can honestly answer that question. Desperate people, and countries, do desperate deeds. We had the means to end it quicker, rather than, maybe, later.

Reagan had the fortitude and the “guts” to do it. Boy, did we hear the liberals scream to high heaven. We still do. Reagan was getting us into a nuclear war! No, it cost us up front, but it provided a peace that we hadn’t seen in decades, not to mention the freedom people were given.

That is correct, SIS, some of us are actually talking from the “gut”, and from living in that time period. Maybe you did, too. We are not talking from some book that has revised history. History revision has been going on forever, especially from a left view during my lifetime.

It was worth it. Reagan did right.

m miller   December 10th, 2009 - 3:37 pm

All of these people are working for the same end. Do not you people get it. No difference exist in the final result. They are creating a global order. Look at Copenhagen, NAFTA, and the dismantling of nation states. You guys have to look at the big picture. All these leaders are tools. What has Obama done that is different from Bush. He cannot close Gitmo and he continues rendition. He has extended the troops stay in Iraq, he ramped up the power of the Patriot Act, and he has even included an additional crime against liberty; he has created a committee to watch everyone who has internet connection. Look beyond these party lines. They want you to be divided publicly. He kept Bush’s Secretary of Defense Gates, he kept Geithner who was the fed president in New York, he dismantled the Glass-Stegal Act which would have prevented the collapse of housing. Look at the writing on the wall, he is another deceiver.

temple62   December 10th, 2009 - 3:44 pm

Junior wasn’t around when people he mentioned actually made decisions in a timely manner. He has no experiences other than finding political support from his Chicago cronies. This speech must have been some research paper he was working on when the Chicago politicals thrust his A$$ into the white house.

Lies from a dumb azz FOOL!   December 10th, 2009 - 3:59 pm

What a moron! Get back on the plane, get back to the country you hate the most – the U.S.A., and get to work – or don’t!

You’ve done enough DAMAGE already!

@So I Say December 10th, 2009 - 2:47 pm   December 10th, 2009 - 4:48 pm

I’m was alive at the time and don’t need to read a book you dumb fool.
so you say; “No Western threat of force or military occupation forced their collapse”. It was the bluff that we had the Star Wars technology that fooled them in to throwing the towel. It was the straw that broke the camels back I was there I know. It was a dominos effect and star wars was THE FORCE that pushed over the 1st domino and David Marbles is a pinko Canadian POS just like you.

Eileen for Freedom/Liberty   December 10th, 2009 - 7:46 pm

America…Copenhagen…city in Denmark whose queen is Beatrix a major player in the Bilderberg Society!

Now do you know why Bilderberg Bush-Obama was selected to receive this now degraded award?

Let me explain it…Bilderberg Bush-Obama is the puppet of the puppetmaster Bilderbergs. Handpicked and groomed for this position to put a half black man in power to gain the deaf, dumb, blind votes of those of color and the deaf, dumb blind votes of those not of color who are just plain stupid!

Put into position to take America down from within to usher in the “New World Order” that will have a one world government, bank, currency and ruler!

That is why there are so many “sky is falling” projects under this fraud…the agenda and deadlines are important to the Bilderberg!

He was given this award for doing nothing, ever, in his life…it was given to provide him with credibility in the world!

Denmark, Copenhagen, Beatrix, Bilderberg, Obama and the ‘mentally disabled’ Democratzi seeking to take America down from within!

A conspiracy like no other…so unbelieveable…it is hard to believe…but it is true…America…connect the dots.

Federal Reserve…the financial arm of the Bilderberg. Bernanke, Geithner, Paulson, Volckner all Bilderberg members! Both Clintons, both Bushes and now the first Kenyan/Muslim President of this Christian nation!

America…we need a leader that is not involved in Bilderberg! One who will put a stop to their involvement in our government!

Ron Paul has introduced a bill that would “force”…”force” the first audit of the Federal Reserve to see what they are doing with “our” money!

Call/email/write your state reps and tell them you want them to approve both bills for the audit in the Senate and the House!

We want to prove who is pulling the strings in our government and who is stealing our money and we want control of our government back in the hands of America’s citizens…where it belongs…not with the Bilderbergs!

———————-

THE REVOLUTION OF THE SILENT MAJORITY!

1. GETTING INFORMED
2. GETTING INVOLVED
3. GETTING OUT THE VOTE

WE WILL REMOVE THE ‘MENTALLY UNSTABLE’ DEMOCRATZI STARTING WITH NEW JERSEY AND VIRGINIA IN 2009, INTO 2010 AND BEYOND…GUARANTEED!

IMPEACHMENT OR THE ‘ORIGINAL’ KENYAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE…IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME!

Whatwhatwhat   December 10th, 2009 - 9:45 pm

The Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START I) was proposed and signed by Ronald Reagan. President Obama is, of course, CORRECT!!!

You people are, as usual, a bunch of ignorant @$$ idiots who are willing to be lead by any two-bit reich-wing whack job with a pen or a microphone.

N Waff   December 10th, 2009 - 9:54 pm

==========================================
The last thing I expect from Obama is him having any accurate presentation of American History
==========================================

conservativeandproud   December 10th, 2009 - 10:05 pm

its all about the O.

So I Say   December 11th, 2009 - 9:09 am

@So I Say December 10th, 2009 – 2:47 pm

If you are to ignorant to be able to argue the facts,you name call in it’s place.Typical ignorant right wing whack job.

kmichaels   December 11th, 2009 - 1:10 pm

“So I Say” much like Obama, simply opens his putrid mouth and rattles off one provable lie after another. God, are all you dimwitted souless godless liberals as stupid as you sound?

@ Whatwhatwhat   December 11th, 2009 - 1:11 pm

@ Whatwhatwhat December 10th, 2009 – 9:45 pm
START (for Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty) is a bilateral treaty between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) on the Reduction and Limitation of Strategic Offensive Arms. The treaty was signed on 31 July 1991 and entered into force on 5 December 1994.
after the collapse of USSR

kmichaels   December 11th, 2009 - 1:15 pm

Reagan had a plan that was GOOD FOR AMERICA regardless of the simplistic minds and meanderings of the drooling mindless gutless soul-less godless liberal trolls on this board.

As Time magazine put it at the time, “Under Reagan’s ceilings, the U.S. would have to make considerably less of an adjustment in its strategic forces than would the Soviet Union. That feature of the proposal will almost certainly prompt the Soviets to charge that it is unfair and one-sided. No doubt some American arms-control advocates will agree, accusing the Administration of making the Kremlin an offer it cannot possibly accept—a deceptively equal-looking, deliberately nonnegotiable proposal that is part of what some suspect is the hardliners’ secret agenda of sabotaging disarmament so that the U.S. can get on with the business of rearmament.” However, Time did point out that, “The Soviets’ monstrous ICBMs have given them a nearly 3-to-1 advantage over the U.S. in “throw weight”—the cumulative power to “throw” megatons of death and destruction at the other nation.”

kmichaels   December 11th, 2009 - 1:19 pm

Now, we have seen how wise Reagan was, in that he tricked Russia into weakening their defenses and offensive capabilities at the same time that Reagan worked towards stronger US offensive abilities as well as the much hated by idiot liberals defensive star wars project. Now, what exactly has Obama done? Oh yeah, that friggin idiot kid president apologized, bowed to world leaders, kissed Russia’s arse and has given up keep defensive locations in Europe. Obama is the worst most stupid most useless US president since Jimmy the dimwitted fool and Palestinian terrorist lover Carter.

kmichaels   December 11th, 2009 - 1:20 pm

Whatwhatwhat always shows that he has a moronic simplistic out of touch half arrsed view of reality.

Whatwhatwhat   December 12th, 2009 - 12:59 am

The START treaty was PROPOSED by RONALD REAGAN on JUNE 29,1982. As usual, the reich-wing LIES to cover the TRUTH but the truth will NOT be denied.

President Obama is CORRECT!!!!!!!!

YOU are full of $#it!!!!!!!

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