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OK, let’s keep it on health care. Tell me where in the Constitution of the United States of America, health care is mandated as a power delegated to the Federal Government? I’ll tell you where, nowhere. And the precedent needs to be set to shut down the debate because it is a moot point. Furthermore, the states need to exercise their 10th Amendment rights or we all lose and this union will not survive long into the future without coming to a revolt of some sort!!!

Kyle,
Back when they wrote the Constitution they didn’t know what caused disease and thought it was due to “God’s will” or a miasma (bad wind). We know a lot more about the causes of disease, treatment, and prevention now. It doesn’t surprise me that they wouldn’t specify health care a power delegated to the Feds. They did, however, realize that the role of government is to protect and serve the people. Health care is part of that. The debate isn’t should we do it, but HOW should we do it.

Well, there’s Rush dealing in “Truth” again – which is like kryptonite to most people…

No ones looking at the forced labor aspect. It makes medial staff and doctors slaves. Where as the Federal Government will dictate salary, workload and all other things involved. Like cheap cotton picking. Digital Slavery. We going about this backwards and too much a rush to really improve Amerikan medicine. DNC has become the NAZI party.. remove the holocaust for a moment please people. Wake up.

health care, the holy grail(de jour)of the hollywood set. let me see, what color ribbon would that be?

Don’t EVER mess with Captain James T Kirk. William Shatner has it right. Limbaugh appears to be totally frustrated. Shatner had his phaser on ” stun ” when he should have had it on kill.

O’Really?. They did in fact know what disease was but their goal was to free men from the oppression of tyranny of other men, not choice. While the 18th Century was the virtual Dark Ages for us the founders were prescient fellows whose unique perspectives offered timeless wisdom in the realm of humankind. A cursory read of either version of the bill proves frightening as once again, if made into law, the tyranny of the few will take precedence over the many. I would have thought the many examples, failed or failing, of social re-ordering would be lesson enough but it seems many just aren’t that interested in history. Pity.

Nice debate. Score one both for Shatner and for Rush.
But Rush’s point is the correct one – don’t believe the nonsense statistics from Washington who are trying to scare the American public into accepting government healthcare because some bureaucrat has some so-called sobering statistics in their back pocket. As we learned from the the climate change debate, the experts are going to cherry pick their data and not share the raw data for anyone else to use to try and prove or disprove the analysis.
85% of the US prefer their own healthcare – private. Nearly 90% have private healthcare. There are many programs SCHIP, Medicare/Medicade, County clinics, etc to help those that can’t afford it.
Where is the problem, and why does it warrant a $2T – $6T solution?

The problem with healthcare is that it has long since been a free-market solution. Co-pays have set an expectation that healthcare is cheap – where on the backend (insurance) it has become more expensive.

If the government subsidized T-Bone steaks at $1 per pound, everyone with eat T-Bone steak every night. When you subsidize healthcare and blur the true cost, then the cost is going to rise.

Well, this is too short a clip to make a judgment about either, but they each made one excellent point:

Rush tackled one of the central questions: Why should we treat health care differently from any other good or service? Shatner completely ignored this point, just kept repeating “It’s HEALTH CARE!” like saying it louder proved a point. It doesn’t.

Yes, without good health care you might die earlier than otherwise. But you can also die earlier through all kinds of other goods and services: We depend for our lives on the engineering and materials for building safe bridges, houses, dams, roads, cars, light switches, HVAC systems, etc., the productivity, safety and reliability of our farmers, truckers, cooks, water and sewer treatment personnel. A poorly trained or unsafe pedicurist can kill you by neglecting to sterilize her instruments. You can kill yourself by abusing drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, food, or even just by failing to cook your chicken safely. Health care is an economic good/service just like any other.

Government already provides a number of economic goods and services and has proven itself an expensive but mediocre to poor provider of things like education, crime control, emergency management, communicable disease control, and national defense. It is very hard to provide excellent cost effective service when the profit motive is removed, because that is such a vital piece of information about what you’re doing right or wrong.

Rush’s point is perfectly valid, and Shatner did not refute it.

But Shatner proved he might be more than just a formerly-pretty face. His last question, “How do you know?” is one of the most important that can be asked in any debate. I wish more people would ask it and really listen to the answer. Rush gave a good one, given the time allowed. He has studied it; it’s his livelihood. He knows that when he asserts a fact, hundreds if not thousands of listeners are right there trying to prove him wrong, and they don’t succeed very often.

Geeez….Brietbart has the sensitivity filter set to kill, not stun…

Nice debate. Score one both for Shatner and for Rush.
But Rush’s point is the correct one – don’t believe the nonsense statistics from Washington who are trying to scare the American public into accepting government healthcare because some bureaucrat has some so-called sobering statistics in their back pocket. As we learned from the the climate change debate, the experts are going to cherry pick their data and not share the raw data for anyone else to use to try and prove or disprove the analysis.
85% of the US prefer their own healthcare – private. Nearly 90% have private healthcare. There are many programs to help those that can’t afford it.
Where is the problem, and why does it warrant a $2T – $6T solution?

The problem with healthcare is that it has long since been a free-market solution. Co-pays have set an expectation that healthcare is cheap – where on the backend (insurance) it has become more expensive.

If the government subsidized sirloin steaks at $1 per pound, everyone would eat sirloin steak every night. When you subsidize healthcare and blur the true cost, then the cost is going to rise.

If the government subsidized sirloin steaks at $1 per pound, everyone would eat sirloin steak every night. When you subsidize healthcare and blur the true cost, then the cost is going to rise.

We are doomed…..the country will be bankrupted if obamacare and cap and tax pass…..we are doomed !!!!

sunsetsabunch,

We were doomed when 69+ million idiots sealed the vote in for Obama last November.

Rush: Why haven’t you emptied your bank account(s) and sold all of your possessions to finance the healthcare for the less fortunate…in fact lets go down to the nearest emergency room with your checkbook and pre-pay for any emergency medical services a non-insured person may need. You are a millionaire many times over, sir, Mr. Priceline Negotiator. Why haven’t you written the IRS a huge check to help out?

Captain Kirk: Mr. Sulu, get us out of here warp-speed. Communism and Socialism for thee but not for me. Kirk Out.

I saw the whole show. Shatner’s no socialist – just a few steps to the left of Limbaugh; and Shatner isn’t to the left on every major issue either. Shatner’s family has dealt with Nazism and all manner of antisemitism, so he’s no fan of widespread government control of anything per se. It’s just that Shatner’s one of those old school Democrats who still thinks that the Democratic party represents the little guy. And of course, Shatner has an unmatched work ethic – he simply doesn’t think like the entitled class. I’m no “Trekkie”, but, I do admire Bill Shatner. He had the guts to really talk to Rush, and let Rush talk back, and there wasn’t any trace of that snarky superior tone we’re so used to hearing from the Left and pop culture figures.

How very strange, what show was this? I thought it’d be a joke, but it looked like an interesting enough debate. Not that I care what Bill Shatner thinks about Health Care. Maybe he should start a pricefinder type website to find the cheapest/best health care in the country…. OH YEAH he can’t do that because the Fed says we can’t buy health insurance over state lines.

The Preamble specifies one of the Constitution’s purposes is to promote the “general welfare” by limiting what government can do. {Obama lamented this fact in a 2001 interview on Chicago Public Radio.} The Preamble next defines government’s role in “Securing Liberty”. In the context of economic liberty, one has to ask how far government has already encroached when the average household pays over 50% of it’s earnings in income, property, and sales taxes combined.

The show will air for the FIRST time Sunday Night, Dec.6.
I don’t have TV and have forgotten what channel and time. Sorry.

To O’Really: “Back when they wrote the Constitution they didn’t know what caused disease and thought it was due to “God’s will” or a miasma (bad wind). We know a lot more about the causes of disease, treatment, and prevention now. It doesn’t surprise me that they wouldn’t specify health care a power delegated to the Feds. They did, however, realize that the role of government is to protect and serve the people. Health care is part of that. The debate isn’t should we do it, but HOW should we do it.”

And that is why the role of the federal government was limited. All other authority was given to the states and the people respectively. It is a personal and a state issue, not one of massive federal intrusion, and as such, a national debate is not proper. So, your comments have no merit on their face. Try again please.

Kyle……..whatever the times doesn’t change anything.
You can and has been done change the Constitution by amendment not by force.

Often cited seldom done make them define every point the lefty is trying to make. Rush does it more and better than most. If you know what you are talking about and have a sense of logic lefty’s will never win an argument.
You will make a fool out of them every time. That is why they always change the subject. They cannot or will not define their position. They have none.
By making them define every point they will expose their ignorance.

Hey Shatner, do us all a favor and stick to Star Trek, acting, commercials, comedies, radio, priceline.com etc. I think you’re a gas & a giggle and I dig you maaaaaaaaaaan, but seriously, you don’t hold a candle about politics with El Rushbo. You’ll become the submissive one! You’ll never win!

I thought Shatner was very sincere and I liked that, but I think like almost everyone he is responding the abstractions of health and healthcare and hasn’t given thought to the total that’s greater than the sum of the costs of providing health care? I enjoyed a story in the TIMES today where the CBO reports:

“Before taking account of federal subsidies to help people buy insurance on their own, the budget office said the bill would tend to drive up premiums. But as a result of the subsidies, it said, most people in the individual insurance market would see their costs decline, compared with the costs expected under current law. The subsidies, a main feature of the bill, would cost the government nearly $450 billion in the next 10 years and would cover nearly two-thirds of premiums for people who receive them.”

Now, this is the point people miss. That $450 billion dollar subsidy isn’t going to come in the form of a donation to the American people by our friends in China, it will come from new taxes, unfunded mandates and anywhere the governments suspect it can squeeze out another dollar. In other words, the cost are just shifted, which is to say the great majority of Americans will get shafted.

What’s more surprising is that most people I know who support “healthcare reform,” don’t ask the most fundamental questions: for instance, who will provide the services they need, and where will they be provided? Would people be inclined to support these reforms if they discovered that most of the care they and their families will receive will take place at neighborhood clinics and not at their doctor’s office.

I also think H2K’s point about co-payments is quite right, people are not simply ignorant of the true cost of the care they receive, they’re indifferent to it.

I think Shatner’s question, “How do you know?” is applicable to both camps here. A little critical intelligence would do wonders, although ideologues have little use of serious questioning. But common sense, personal experience and a bit of honesty suggests that Healthcare Reform as conceived by the Democratic Party majority, may improve access to medical care for the poor and working poor, and it will cost the middle-classes in terms of quality of care and dollars, while the well-to-do, will continue to enjoy the finest medicine in the world, probably provided in even more salubrious environments.

People think this is about healthcare and how expensive it is. They’re right but not for them, for companies. This is about making the auto companies and other US corporations competitive again. The fines they’ll pay for not offering insurance are much smaller than current healthcare costs. What is happening is they are simply transferring the bill from employers to us. If you don’t believe me a democrat on the Fox News show last Sunday said if we don’t pass healthcare Michigan will lose even more auto (union) jobs. THIS IS WHAT IT IS REALLY ABOUT, THEY’RE SELLING YOU OUT AND YOUR THIRD WORLDIZATION IS ALMOST COMPLETE.

Liberal Democrats have taken corruption to a new high and taxpayers will be paying the bill for years. THE STIMULUS BILL, how are those jobs coming? THE ACORN SCANDAL, taxpayers supporting voter fraud! THE GLOBAL WARMING SCAM, fat Al and bogus scientists getting rich while you pay the tab!

And best of all, THE HEALTH CARE SCAM, citizens will pay taxes and public insurance costs for 4 years before receiving ANY benefits, during that time current Medicare and Medicaid benefits will be reduced to build up the kitty and put in the hands of HONEST OBAMA and our HONORABLE CONGRESS.

Now certainly we can trust HONEST OBAMA and our HONORABLE CONGRESS to hold that money in trust for us, right? Surely they will make good on their promises, right?

IT’S MILKING TIME AND YOU LIBERAL DEMOCRAT VOTERS ARE THE STUPIDEST COWS EVER!

Corruption in Congress
http://usataxpayer.org/view.asp?Get=corruptcongress

Global Warming Scam Exposed!
http://usataxpayer.org/view.asp?Get=globalwarming

Health care is as personal as a toothbrush. I wouldn’t use yours, don’t use mine. In other words, take care of your own health.

O’Really – The Government does not exist to care for your every need. The Constitution is about what the government Cannot do – and how it should be limited. All of the points that liberals regurgitate to make their specious arguments are not the Constitution’s intent, but rather the liberal projection of what they want it to mean. Serve. Protect. General Welfare. None of those things refer to providing food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, education, or anything else. It is about the government providing national defense, the military, and about not hindering or impeding the individual’s own pursuit of his own needs and ambitions. What you, and other leftists are suggesting is that not only can the rules be changed at whim through broad interpretation, but that the Constitution is akin to the communist manifesto. Take charge of your own life, and that of your children – stop relying on the nanny state; you have no idea what you support or the damage it will cause to future generations.

The Federal Gov. can not run something this big without making it cost more
Without lowering the quality
and it will kill research and we lead the way in that so kiss it goodbye
Rush knows you use market forces to inprove or
do it at the state level let the state’s try it and see what good they can do but I would predict a California or a Michigan bankrupt state.

Shatner wants to know from Rush how he could “know” he is right on this issue, while Shatner himself shouts in opposition to Rush without “knowing” anything to the contrary. Those Hollywood sheep only repeat and “know” what the directors tell them to say. They are worthless human garbage, and I do not understand how people can waist their money supporting Hollywood. Hollywood has not made a nickel off of me over the past 10 years. They need to be permanently boycotted, and forced to find honest work.

Shatner is just a typical Elite Socialist Marxist pig, just like 99.99% of all Hollywood idiots!!!! I liked Star Trek but I dont like him.

~Sigh~ another multi-millionaire shilling for free government stuff – paid for with someone else’s money.

It’s like the Dead Kennedy always wanted to do, share GOVERNMENT $$$$$$$.

Healthcare is about GOVERNMENT CONTROL – of your lives! See Euro-land for an example.

Spock was always smarter than Kirk, and Limbaugh will always be smarter on political issues than Shatner. (blame that on His Madcow disease too-tho)

There has always been healthcare, only since the government got into the business has the problems started, and I mean Medicare. There is always a problem when government gets involved in anything especially with something as huge as this. The government has never made a program better once they get involved. We have an opportunity to do it right if we do it right, but the idiots in Washington are incapable of doing the right thing.

Mr. William Shatner is a product of the single payer Health Care system, as he was born in Canada ! Yet he probably uses your far SUPERIOR Health Care system! Just another Hollywood Hypocrite.” Scotty don”t beam me up to Canada,NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !”

Shathispantsner really wants to know how elRushbo knows but just before that he said he wants to keep the subject on health care. Just which is it Shatforbrains. How elRushbe acquires his knowledge or his thoughts about health care?

My question is: How can supposedly intelligent and informed liberals NOT know?

Really, they act as if they know everything while not knowing even the most basic factors involved in important issues.

I like Shatner, but his Canadian upbringing seems to color his understanding of the AMERICAN health care situation.

Is he still a Canadian citizen? If so, what does he care? If not, what the hell’s wrong with him? He is known the world over because of the American Capitalist system. He still doesn’t get what being an American is all about. Nor, apparently, do some Americans.

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Just like the “manmade” Global warming hoax,the jerks who want Socialized Medicine cooked the figures.Their mortality figures for the U.S. included traffic accident victims! Everyone ,including Capt. Kirk knows of the dismal healthcare system the Canadians endure. For example ,1 MRI machine for an entire city,and an obsolete one at that. I live in Palm Beach county,and can think of three in a 3 mile radius of my home.But politics over family,one lib friend of mine’s reply when asked about the breast exam issue,”well we all can’t live forever”—I wonder what his wife’s view on that subject might be? Oh well, I guess one can sacrifice one’s family on the alter of party affiliation.

Rush is correct.

The increased cost of health care in the U.S. is from a myriad of factors that have nothing to do with insurance. Our lifestyles, use of prescription drugs, and other factors have more to do with the excess cost of health care than any other factors. We are more obese than than any other nation. We smoke more than any other nation. More than half of Americans are on at least one prescription drug.

Most countries that have socialized health care are being crushed by its weight and are looking for ways to get off. This country will be no different.

Shiori…You are 100% Correct!!! The Constitution does not grant us rights, but rather protects our God given rights. All you chuckleheads out there that think the Government is there to protect us and look out for us, “We the people”, you are sorely mistaken. The Constitution is there to protect us from the Government. Read the Declaration of Independence again and see why and how we became the United States of America. The power lies with the people and NOT with the Government Bureaucrats.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

Wake up people, use your power, speak your mind and don’t let the idealists win the day. You don’t govern based on the ideal, you govern based on the REAL.

Rush was dead on. Shatner was simply reading lines.

“Rush tackled one of the central questions: Why should we treat health care differently from any other good or service?”

This is the basic market-fundamentalist argument which has been the Republican ideology since at least Reagan. This argument is fundamentally flawed. Not all aspects of human development and security can be served by the free market. Some examples that should be obvious to anyone with a brain: National Defense, CIA/FBI, Policing, Courts, Firefighting, Pure scientific research, parks etc.

You also cannot get universal education if you depend on markets alone and without that how can a nation claim to provide equal opportunity to all its citizens? Similarly you cannot get universal healthcare if you depend solely on the profit motive. Those who oppose the idea of universal health coverage such as Limbaugh and the teabaggers are coming from an evil, heartless place. Lack of health insurance kills tens of thousands of americans EVERY year. It is a life and death issue not just any other good or service as people like Limbaugh insist. If tens of thousands of americans died every hear from lack of food, ideologues like Limbaugh would also say it was their own fault for not being able to afford enough food to survive. Such people lack humanity. They do not deserve to be called humans.

William Shatner is illogical.

William Shatner lacks the Volcan Logic.

Where is Mr. Spock’s logic when we need it the most !!!

Every modern developed nation tries to create a safety net for its citizens. If you want to see what a nation without a safety net looks like, go to India and be horrified.

The framers knew exactly what they were writing – just look closely at the words… “PROVIDE for the common defense…” “PROMOTE the general welfare…” (sorry for the caps since we can’t underline or bold)

They chose two different words (provide and promote) purposely. If they wanted the government to “provide” things like food, shelter, health care, etc, they would have said it.

The safety net that Democrats create is one where uneducated poor voters are provided promises of free stuff at the expense of other voters. The safety net is intended to keep self serving democrats in power. None of these safety nets actually help people progress or become better off. In fact, they make more people worse off, with less money, less retirement and more unnecessary governmental hassles.

Chris, National Defense is specified in the US constitution. Policing, firefighting, etc, is a community decision, using state and individual rights.
Health care is more like auto insurance and buying good food. It is a personal decision. Forcing it upon the nation is as stupid as it gets.

Really now,….asking Rush Limbaugh for his opinion about health care is about as valid as asking Ronald McDonald about Le Cordon Bleu.

the only commonality is they are both clowns.

Keep in mind that William Shatner is CANADIAN. He is living in this country siphoning off of the Greatest Healthcare in the world (Until Obama Kills it that is). When Pelosi and Obama pass their Healthcare we will be the new Canada. When Cap and Trade Passes, we will be the new Cuba.

“Health care is more like auto insurance and buying good food. It is a personal decision. Forcing it upon the nation is as stupid as it gets.”

Funny that you should mention stupidity while making such a stupid argument. Didn’t you know that auto insurance is indeed forced upon the nation’s drivers?

Worse than the stupidity and ignorance is the sheer inhumanity of your cold calculation that equates the human body to inanimate objects like cars.

Chris if I have $10,000, that I made with my own two hands, and your kid gets sick. What freaking right do you or the Government have to take a portion of MY hard earned $10,000 to pay for your stupid kid. That’s not my problem. If you’re too poor or two stupid to take care of your own kids, you know what, maybe you shouldn’t of had any.

I don’t give two craps about you or your health when I have to worry about me and mine. Lot of good my hard earned money does me and my family if I have to pay for other people first.

Why are they sitting in a love seat?

William Shatner shat.

William Shatner is a hollwood-kike.

Beam me up Scottie, there’s no intelligent life here.

“Chris if I have $10,000, that I made with my own two hands, and your kid gets sick. What freaking right do you or the Government have to take a portion of MY hard earned $10,000 to pay for your stupid kid. That’s not my problem.”

This is an issue only with right wing americans like you (who, ironically, seem to be concentrated in states that pay less in taxes than they take in govt services) . Every other developed nation on the planet considers universal healthcare and universal education as priorities for their government.

In the process of reading both versions of the Healthcare bill(s) I am finding it very difficult to find ANYTHING that actually improves our health care system … nor virtually NOTHING that actually reduces the cost of care.
Presently we do subsidize low income families – Medicade – why not simply broaden the insuring parameters of that.
Why not simply mandate that insurance companies offer insurance despite prior illness?
Why not allow people and or companies seeking insurance to cross state lines and find the best policies for the best possible price?
Why not allow these suggestions to be enforced for a few years and see if this has the desired impact on providing more coverage for the population and also reduces costs?
There is NOTHING in either bill that really does ANYTHING to improve the healthcare system – it DOES however increase a flow of tax revenues to the central government prior to ANY of these purported benefits taking effect and in ANYONE actually thinks that this money with be “set aside” in ANY manor to actually pay for the program in advance … well then I pity your folly.

I seem to get by just fine in my life without Government handouts and universal anything. Public Education is a joke, ever since the Fed has been involved with our education our standards have gone down. Public school is an absolute joke. Why? Because Government runs it, with the NEA. Maybe you libs need to learn some personal responsibility and learn how to take care of yourselves. Here’s a tip, life sucks and then you die. So you may as well get used to it. If you get off your ass and go work hard, you can actually make something with your life here in the USA. Working hard is something you all would know nothing about tho, as you just want things done for you, and handed to you, and paid for you. Grow up man.

I grew up with the notion, if you can’t afford something, don’t buy it. And as it is, this country cant afford to pay the health care of the welfare class that has no desire to work to better themselves.

I don’t need welfare, I don’t need Government to find me a job, I don’t need a damned thing from the Federal Government. About all they should be worried about doing is providing for the national defense. I guarantee you it’s not “right-wingers” leeching the Government of services we can’t afford, it’s leftist statist liberals who don’t even have jobs in the private sector, it’s the welfare class that leeches the system and never bothers to look for a job, food stamps, public education, social security, welfare, it’s all a freaking disaster. A bankrupt disaster at that.

And as I said, lots of good our Public Education system has done… IT SUCKS, compare it to the rest of the world. I mean look at you, you’re obviously a product of such a system that teaches our kids to rely on Big Brother to give them food shelter and water.

Too bad you people couldn’t of lived 200 years ago, would of loved to watch you wander around the world looking for handouts before America existed.

There is nothing in the healthcare bill about healthcare. It’s ALL about the chip.

Rush has data to back up his claim that health care is not broken. He gets his illegal drugs at full discount.

There are some episodes of Raw Nerve which I have never found myself interested in watching, but a few are really great shows and I would think this would be one of them. Shatner does a pretty good job with probing questions, and while he isn’t about to change his viewpoint (his ego and all) – he is polite and engaging with his guests, some of which he really disagrees with (although it never seems like he actually dispises them like some liberals do). The Jon Voight show was great, and Voight really blew Shatner away on some points but Shatner still kept at it but let Voight answer. I wish that more of the regular TV show hosts would take cues from Shatner (i.e. Hannity!) Also Raw Nerve could be an hour instead of just 30 minutes.

2 idiots…big deal

“I seem to get by just fine in my life without Government handouts and universal anything……..I don’t need a damned thing from the Federal Government……….I guarantee you it’s not “right-wingers” leeching the Government of services we can’t afford, it’s leftist statist liberals who don’t even have jobs in the private sector”

This is the usual arrogant ignorance of the teabagger crowd incited by vile psuedo-elitist, racist rabble rousers like Limbaugh and Beck. People who think like you tend to be concentrated in the rural areas and small towns of America. These are the very folks who benefit the most from government services, who pay less in taxes than they get from the government! You use the govt built and maintained highways, parks etc 100 times more often than urban americans. You pay the same for postal services as urbanites even though it is far more costly to provide that service in your areas. Likewise for electricity, water, garbage collection etc. And the heavy subsidies for farmers. That is not the free market in action is it? And even after all this govt help your regions contribute little, in comparison to metropolitan areas, to America’s power and prosperity. Yet you folks are stupid and ungrateful enough to rant and rage against the Government of the United States!

You should be asking yourself this if you were intellectually honest: Why should the well-educated, hardworking, talented liberal scientists, engineers, entrepreneurs etc who made America wealthy and strong subsidize your kind? Why should heavily liberal Silicon Valley CA, Manhattan NY, Cambridge MA, Hollywood CA and other icons of american ingenuity and prosperity subsidize the lifestyle of pampered rural and small town America?

Two poor people get sick in two different countries with TB. Country ‘A’ has basic universal health-care. Country ‘B’ is America in a prolonged recession/depression.

Both people get in an elevator or subway in their respective countries 1 month after falling ill.

Which country do you want to be in?
TB will kill about two of every three people affected if left untreated.
Your Daughter who moved moved out on her own & is now working at Burger King goes out ‘nightclubbing’ in either country, which one would you chose? Esp knowing that young guys at the clubs might not be able to afford the vaccine for HPV or treatment for Syphilis or Chlamydia.
I won’t even get into treatment resistant diseases which develop because people cannot afford to keep taking the required medicine.

National health-care isn’t for the poor, it’s to keep the poor from making the talented or comfortably off sick or DEAD.

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