Breitbart.tv

Funny. I saw the same film clip showing Hitler abandoning his appearance at the Cup Finals because of all the vuvuzelas. But this version is even better. They could be related too. When it comes to Muslims screaming shrilly from the minarets for morning prayer, I'd take the vuvuzelas instead.

That was funny up to the point where Hitler said, get me the village people.

NO MORE KENYANS!!!!!!!

Hitler is widely celebrated in many Islamic countries. As distasteful as it is, it is quite appropriate to equate Islam with Nazism.

Well, the tongue in cheek message of the first amendment is dead on. Our enemies will use the pansies in the judiciary to help them get things that the vast majority of people do not want and basically despise. Muslims have a bad name for obvious reasons. It is up to them, not us, to convince America that they do come in peace and it is also up to them to control the crazies.

Don't know how long it will be up–but is is funny! There is truth in humor–especially this time.

muslims are very fond of Hitler. It's no secret.
We all shall say GOODBYE to muslims and all followers of this evil cult. Including the muslim called Barack.

Absolutely. His diatribe of hate, 'Mein Kampf' is required reading in most muslim countries. I can't remember the number of copies that were translated into arabic, but it was staggering. Hitler wanted the Jews dead. Islam wanted and indeed still wants the Jews dead …………….. truly a match made in the infernal reaches.

I_H8_BOR got a tiny little chubby while watching his hero.

ahahahahahahaha. hilarious

At least youtube can't take it down…

That's pretty funny!!! Hehehehe!

Islam knows nothing about freedom. There are no Muslim countries that allow any other faith.
So, it's ironic that now we are to believe that they 'respect' our First Amendment?
Let's end this PC crap and call a spade a spade!

I still say the Constitution does not confer the right to build anything anywhere.

Say it's not a Mocks, it's a community centre.
Community centres are not protected.
Oh. Er. Wait.

Like that.

Yes, the scene first went Viral with 'Hitler gets banned from Xbox Live'. There are literaly Hundreds of spoofs now on most anything you can think of…from Obama to Pokiman. Some of them are funny as hell.

it would be funny if it wasn't so close to the truth. Very clever bit.

Great video it made me laugh. The reality of it is scary.

OK, look…..I'm not going to defend Islamic terrorist nutjobs, but it pains me when a few people on the political Right give the Leftists ammunition by showing how totally ignorant they are.

Please do not make blanket statements when you have no clue what you are talking about. Obviously, you have never set foot in a Muslim country and I'm sure that – prior to 9/11 – you had never heard of Islam. It is only Saudi Arabia and Kuwait that do not tolerate the presence of other faiths. These two countries are extremist theocracies that practice a perverted form of Islam known as Wahhabism.

There are Christian and even Jewish communities that exist, unmolested, in almost all other Muslim countries…..including Iran!

I'll personally do whatever I can to keep this country out of the hands of Marxists, Socialists and Progressives….but I'm not about to sit by and see it get hijacked by intolerant, bigoted Muslim nutjobs OR intolerant, bigoted Christian nutjobs…..because there's very little difference between the two.

Now, before all the Christian, Muslim-hating extremists start foaming at the mouth, let me explain something: What these Islamist extremists are hoping to achieve is, indeed, nothing less than imposing Sharia law upon us all. Sharia is IN NO WAY compatible with the Constitution….or any other system of government that is not totalitarian (hence, their fondness for Marxism and Nazism). We will not, however, turn back this tide, so long as we have people who are so damned ignorant that – every time they open their mouths – they provide the enemies of this country with another opportunity to say "Look! We told you they were ignorant, stupid, Islamophobic nutjobs!"

Learn something, before you start with the verbal vomit, please!

ya, Tell that to the Christians in Sudan.

Christians are being harassed, their churches burned down and pastors and families murdered in Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, and other Muslim controlled countries…Christians can only exist in Muslim countries as Dhimmi's…Try the Pact of Umar……..There are very few Jews left in any of these countries, where there used to be millions…Maybe it is you who need to learn something…

Also…practice a perverted form of Islam known as Wahhabism.

Exactly what is it about wahhabism that is perverted?

Are you going to control Westboro Baptist Church? Will you take responsibility for their actions? Will you cede your first amendment rights because of them?

I'm absolutely not denying that Christians and Jews are persecuted and attacked in any of these countries, but the fact remains that the original statement that "There are no Muslim countries that allow any other faith." is complete garbage. We cannot defeat our enemies if we base our argument on myth. When people in Islamic countries read such statements, their reaction is "Look! That shows that these stupid Americans know absolutely nothing about us and just hate us because we are not Christians…..so let's just keep killing them". I would also point out that, in Lebanon, the Christian Phalangist militias rival Hezbollah for brutality…..as just one example.

"Exactly what is it about wahhabism that is perverted?" – Well, obviously, you know absolutely nothing about Islam and nothing about Wahhabism, otherwise you would not even be asking the question.

Here's my point: I want to see Islamist extremism completely annihilated, but I have no wish to see it replaced by ANOTHER form of religious extremism. You people need to educate yourselves and understand that this is a war of POLITICAL ideology: I don't hate them because they're Muslims, I hate them because they want to force totalitarianism upon us.

Those of you who just want all Muslims dead are no different from them. Over the last 1500 years, tens of millions of people have been persecuted, tortured, imprisoned and/or killed in the name of religion – most of them by Christians. So, please, keep your religious extremism to yourself.

Jeez PP, you are lost in pretending to defend the US. Are you a plant in support of Islamic hatred towards Jews & the Constitution?
Try reading the Koran & Sharia. It includes killing other faiths & non-believers. You would not like to live under it, especially women.

Actually, I have read the Koran twice…which is obviously twice more than you've read it!

"Are you a plant in support of Islamic hatred towards Jews & the Constitution?" – OK, either YOU are the plant, or you simply haven't actually READ what I am saying. Get a life or at least get a clue, dude.

Ooops! The truth about Islam.

Hitler was the old HNIC;
H = Head
N = Nazi
I = In
C = Charge

Obummer is the new HMIC;
H = Head
M= Muslim
I = In
C = Charge

A poster indicated that Christians are well treated in Islamic countries, and I pointed out that no they are not…Apparently Brietbart deleted both of them…The truth gets you deleted?

The head muslim from the Palestinian area, Grand Mufti or whatever the hell they
called him was a strong supporter of Adolf Hitler and they were photographed
together on many occasions. Of course there is a direct tie between
Nazis and Islam. They worked on each other's hate against Jews.

And people should not think for a minute that muslims don't still cherish Hitler
and still hate Jews.

swami,

I do not believe that your post should have been deleted: After all, even IF what you say about Christians not being well-treated in Muslim countries was a lie (and it is half-true and half simply misinformed) then, by logical extension, every comment posted on this site by a Leftist would have to be deleted, on the basis that they are all lies.

People,

Our situation is perilous. Those on the Left are pinning their hopes of victory on painting all Republicans, Conservatives, Libertarians and all others who revere the Constitution as ignorant, bigoted, hate-filled, Islamophobic extremists. Are we going to actually prove them right by expressing ignorant, bigoted, hate-filled, Islamophobic points of view?….because, if we are, then the country is lost: The USA will become a full-fledged Left-wing dictatorship. I'm actually beginning to believe that all the "Big" sites have been heavily infiltrated by Leftist trolls who are spewing hate in order to perpetuate their own propaganda.

We are in the midst of a global war, make no mistake: But our REAL enemy is not Islam – it is MARXISM. I have studied the history of Islam, the Koran and also the roots of Islamist fundamentalism and I'm telling you straight: The movement has it's roots in Marxist ideology, not the Koran. This is why Obama will never take the kind of stand against them that he should. Idealogically, he is aligned with them. I'm tired of even reading posts that "quote" whole passages of the koran that do not, actually, even exist!

Should the "ground zero mosque" be built? Absolutely not. Quite apart from it being an insult to the memory of the victims of 9/11 – and all Americans – the people behind it have, undeniably, some very sinister connections. Clearly, their motives are not pure, otherwise they would have agreed to move it long ago, or would never have considered building it there in the first place.

We MUST, however, recognize the enemy for what they are: ideological fanatics who have hidden behind the banner of Islam. To defeat them, we must divide and conquer; we must separate them from their recruiting base and their source of ideological and material support. What is this base and this source? A large section of the Muslim world. The more we foam at the mouth about Islam being evil, the more we feed that base.

Those of you who continue to spew this religious fanaticism and hate are contributing to our defeat! You are welcome to disagree, but don't waste your time or mine by insulting me…..prove me wrong with facts, which – I assure you – you can't.

His post and your post are about
13 posts above this one.

I would think that by now you
would have noticed that some
posts take time to show up
and you have to refresh the
display.

Hmm, maybe if you didn't act like a knowitall you would get along with people better.

Muslim countries do not allow proselyting other religions in their countries.
And non-muslims are almost always treated as second hand (or worse)
citizens. Cordoba Spain, set up as an example of Muslim tolerance was
a great example of how they "allowed" other religions to exist in their midst
but they treated them very poorly, both by law, and by practice.

Muslims understand that in order to survive themselves that they can't
outright kill all other religions. For example, Iran, if they knew they
could get away with it, would quickly wipe out Israel. But they know
they can't get away with it without being totally destroyed themselves.

You are free to defend muslims but don't be so dumb to think that
when they are somewhat tolerant that they have kind warm fuzzy
motives behind it.

This is not to say that some muslims are not great people and would
truly make other religions equal, but, for the most part, as a whole
they do not.

The most telling evidence is that the more dominant muslims are
in a given area or country the less tolerant and the more oppressive
they tend to be. The muslim countries that are the most "tolerant"
also tend to have a history of fearing what the other religions in the
area would do to them if they are too harsh.

[Those of you who just want all Muslims dead are no different from them.]

Which of the BB posters seriously want all muslims dead? You act as
though this is a normal request or suggested solution. Sure, you'll
see some posts where some guy will vent, but you really believe anyone
is seriously suggesting this as a solution to the problem?

So, since you read it twice, gives us your list of
some of their more negative instructions towards
non-muslims.

All the parts I read tended to have a non-spiritual
feel to them. As a whole, it tended to lack
human warmth, human forgiveness, human kindness
etc, unless directed at their own wives and their
own children.

But I readily admit that I did not read the entire thing.

Muslims way of life is bloodshead….ask Daniel Pearl

Hitler was allied with the Croatian muzzies in the Baltic area – the US was allied with Christian Serbia.

Democrat Clinton waged war against the Serbians for trying to eject the muzzies from Serbia and Kosovo.

Since that time most Christian churches have been burned out in that area.

Democrats have always sided with tyrants.

"muslims are very fond of Hitler. It's no secret. "

The reciprocal was true as well.

"There are Christian and even Jewish communities that exist, unmolested, in almost all other Muslim countries…..including Iran! "

There is a small population of a very old Jewish group in Iran, numbering around 20,000. They keep their faith quite secret lest they suffer reprisals. There is still intense discrimination against them. For example, if one Jew converts to Islam, he is allowed to claim the property of his family members.

They are hardly "unmolested" as you assert.

"Over the last 1500 years, tens of millions of people have been persecuted, tortured, imprisoned and/or killed in the name of religion – most of them by Christians. "

I haven't tallied the death toll, but keep in mind that Islam has been spread primarily BY THE SWORD.

I am a fairly level headed person and don't believe in too many blanket statements
however, some blanket statements will always be true. For example, evil is always bad.
It makes sense, by definition. I, along with you believe that marxism is always bad.

Now, are we at war with Islam? You made a blanket statement that we are not.
My answer is maybe we are, maybe we are not, depending upon what the real
Islam is. If it turns out that the motivation for the majority of those following
Islam is evil, then yes, we are at war with Islam. If it turns out that the majority
of Islam is good, then no, we are not at war with Islam.

You have drawn a conclusion that the majority of Islam follower are good and
therefore not evil. If you are right, I am with you. If you are wrong, then I am not.

However, what seems to be telling is that when Islam is in a strong majority
in spots around the world, the resultant form of government and general
practices are well, kind of evil.

As to whether we are only in a war against Marxism you are just naive and
foolish. You fail to understand that there is only one truth but many paths
to falsehood. Marxism is just one of the paths to falsehood. We also have
communism, Nazis (National Socialism), Fascism and even pure democracy
would be on the list of evil, since laws based on pure majority rule tend
to lead to evil results.

The conclusion about Islam being our enemy or not is just too soon to say.
But I am leaning towards the idea that pure Islam would indeed lead to
evil results, just like pure democracy would lead to evil results of a different
nature.

Now, none of this is to say that we are in a war with all individuals that
practice Islam, in the same way that we are not in favor of all individuals
that call themselves Christians. Hitler called himself a Christian, as does
Fred Phelps, Barry Obama, Jim Jones, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc.
So we must focus on the underlying beliefs and most especially on their
actual works. "By their works you shall know them."

Democrats are, for the most part, simplistic naive putzes
with a tendency to fight against Christianity because
Republicans are more Christian than they themselves
tend to be so their is a built in point of contention with them.
The party of choice for atheists is Democrats. And in their
zeal to show that they are not biased, they end up supporting
those that tend to be our enemies.

This is so funny! I love it!

I'm not here to win any popularity contests. Other peoples' opinions of me are of no concern.

[Over the last 1500 years, tens of millions of people have been persecuted, tortured, imprisoned and/or killed in the name of religion - most of them by Christians. So, please, keep your religious extremism to yourself.]

Tens of millions? Mostly by Christians? Care to give a breakdown of your claim?
For example, Hitler called himself a Christian but obviously he did so for political
gain. Do you include those he killed as being killed by Christians? If so, you're
a numbskull.

Then we have the crusades, which were a direct result of Muslims expanding
by use of invasions and the sword. Are you sure you have a solid grasp
of reality or are you just spewing trite simplistic conclusions?

There are whole passages of the koran that are, indeed, devoid of spiritualism: These passages deal with very pragmatic instructions on how business and domestic relationships should be conducted. There are other passages that are devoted entirely to love and compassion and still others that deal with conducting warfare against the 'unbelievers'. The biggest falsehood spread by Muslim-haters, regarding the koran, is that the 'unbelievers' to which the koran refers are ALL non-Muslims. If you study the historical context in which the koran was recited (it was never written down during Mohammed's lifetime), it becomes quite clear that the 'unbelievers' were the pagan, polytheistic Arabs who attempted to destroy Islam when it first began to gain popularity.

No, I absolutely do not include Hitler. You did not read my post correctly, or you have taken a leaf from the Progressive playbook and are deliberately skewing what I said:

"…tens of millions of people have been persecuted, tortured, imprisoned and/or killed in the name of religion"

Hitler did not kill in the name of religion. However, the Inquisitions, the Crusades, the Thirty Years War, the conquests of South and Central America, the religious persecutions that happened all over Europe, the Balkan Wars – to name a few – were all examples of Christians killing non-Christians, or killing other Christians who didn't happen to share their particular brand of worship.

Islam – which has always been a backward faith, way behind the times – is now going through what Christianity went through a few hundred years ago.

Are there sections that are devoted to love and compassion
for those that are not believers? And do any passages
refer specifically to Jews and or Christians?

Actually, they do not hide away. After that douchebag Ahmadinejad denied the holocaust, the leader of Iran's Jewish community wrote him a strongly-worded letter, berating him for his words. There were no reprisals.

I read your post "correctly" and included your exact claim. Over the last 1500 years, which would generally include Hitler since he did some torturing etc, and claimed he was a Christian. So if you don't include him in your claim, why not? What makes him special in your mind that you would quickly not include him?

The Inquisitions, though nasty, did not kill millions of people. And the Crusades were in large extent designed to fight back against muslim aggression, so you can't count those deaths as being done "in the name of religion."

I am just trying to get you to list the "tens of millions" that you said were mostly killed by Christians.

Do you really think that Ahmadinejad considers the few Jews in Iran a threat to his power base?
You are naive to think that he would be so rosy with local Jews if he considered them more of a threat.

"Which of the BB posters seriously want all muslims dead?"

Thankfully, they are in the minority, but they're here; they just don't have the guts to admit it. There are Muslims out there that want all Christians and/or Jews dead; there are Jews that want all Muslims dead.

It's precisely why I dislike and distrust the entire concept of organized religion….and I'm actually pretty sure that God doesn't approve of it, either! Early Christian AND early Islam taught that there was absolutely no need for official places of worship or a religious hierachy; that everyone could find God within themselves. Religion is for the weak and those who lack faith, as they need someone else to tell them how pious they are.

Again, you assume that conservatives are saying that muslims are too far gone.
In case you missed it, conservatives believe that Iraq has a chance if
they pull themselves together, offer free elections, and don't get too
radical themselves, as to what leaders they choose.

So, if you agree with me, then you agree that Islam may indeed be one of our enemies
depending on what the majority of it's followers believe and would do
based on their chance to fulfill what they truly believe and we just don't know yet?

Mike…
Search-up: "The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem" ..also pick-up the book, Icon of Evil.

Extremely disingenuous of you:

I made it quite clear that Hitler did not kill in the name of religion, which is why I didn't include him. I did not say that any one of these historical episode ALONE killed millions and as for the Crusades – really??? Fighting back against Muslim aggression? The entire point of the Crusades was to capture the Holy Land for the Catholic Church. It was the Muslims who were fighting back against that aggression and a blatant attempt to steal and colonize land to which no Christian could rightfully lay claim.

KEEP YOUR BRAIN
WORKING ON ONLY ONE THING
VOTING OUT EVERY DEMOCRAT

Yes, there are sections which specifically refer to Jews and Christians. I would be a liar to tell you that I can recite passages from the koran off the top of my head, but – by the end of today – I will go through my copy and pick out a few quotes that – I'm willing to bet – you will absolutely refuse to believe are in there…..but, of course, you can verify that for yourself.

al Husseini (sp) easy to find, kmic… "Grand Mufti of Jewusalem"

[It's precisely why I dislike and distrust the entire concept of organized religion....and I'm actually pretty sure that God doesn't approve of it, either! Early Christian AND early Islam taught that there was absolutely no need for official places of worship or a religious hierachy; that everyone could find God within themselves. Religion is for the weak and those who lack faith, as they need someone else to tell them how pious they are.]

I have no idea about early Islam but early Christian belief involved quite a bit of structure and hierarchy. The foremost example is the twelve apostles in leadership positions and obviously the letters of instruction to the churches located in various cities which makes up a large portion of the New Testament.

[Religion is for the weak and those who lack faith, as they need someone else to tell them how pious they are.]

Now talk about retarded blanket statements, that one takes the cake. Are you sure you are not a liberal plant? Because that statement you just made was really stupid and very much in tune with the common liberal belief about religion.

I go to an organized religion and have for most of my adult life (got active after high school) and never once was told how pious I or the members were.

I was taught this basic concept in my organized religion …
James 1:
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

If you believe that everyone can find God within themselves then perhaps you believe that everyone can become a doctor and a lawyer and a scientist within himself, without the need of structure or from instruction from more experienced teachers.

Here is a section of early Christian scripture that discusses leadership, organization and working together …

1 Corinthians 12
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Good points, PilgrimPatriot. Are you schizophrenic or is there another poster with the same name? There is contradiction with other comments.

You are a little off on your understanding of Marxism & Islam. Try reading "Rules for Radicals", not even the whole book, but summaries & also about how lefty-statistism is being adopted for various reasons. http://www.horowitzfreedomcenter.org/

Who & where is there hate?
The lamestream media, some groups & some individuals, such as Al Sharpton, claim that there's much hate & racism, all the time, but with no examples or evidence.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that you, sir, are a Progressive and a devotee of Alinsky: You certainly continue to adopt the exact same tactics: Making completely false assumptions about what I actually said (I didn't mention anything about the Jewish community being a threat to anyone, but merely pointed out that they have openly expressed dissent without being persecuted for it); name calling and attempting to marginalize (continually referring to me as naive, when – clearly – I have a firmer grasp of the subject than you) and, of course, blatantly asserting that I said something which I did not (the whole business about Hitler killing in the name of Christianity).

You seem like a reasonable and logical person to me, but I tire quickly of conversing with those who are disingenuous. Please refrain from interpreting my words in a way which fits what you WANT to believe about me.

Thank you.

Oh, I'm sorry! I forgot that I was supposed to obediently conform to the little political and religious pigeon-holes into which so many Americans want everyone to fall! How silly of me not to tow the line!

Yes; I am a Constitutional Conservative who happens to carry a gun, not give a crap one way or the other about whether gays get married or pot is legalized, believes in God but despises (although is fascinated by) religion. I apologize if you can't get your head around that one, but it is what it is.

I am not being remotely disingenuous. I am just thinking that you
have a naive view of who "killed in the name of religion" and who
did not. Your one solid example was the inquisitions which was
real nasty, did kill in the name of religion but did not even come
close to killing tens of millions.

My point is yes, some were killed in the
name of Christianity but the numbers were not remotely close
to tens of millions as you claimed.

And you totally ignore the fact that there were many aggressive
muslims during the various crusades, including those in Spain
and various parts of Europe. And it was even more complicated
in that in some cases Jews fought against some that were
Christians (especially against the Franks) and in other cases
Christians fought in order to protect Jews.

You are just being simplistic and naive about the entire matter.
And with or without religions involved nations back then found
various reason to fight against other nations, often having
very little to do with the "name of religion" Such as Christian
France fighting against Christian England.

READ THE KORAN……….

There's no such thing as a Conservative, Moderate, or Jihadist Muslim……….

THEY'RE ALL MUSLIMS……….

Learn the TRUTH before it's too late……….

THERE ARE PLENTY OF ENGLISH, GERMAN, OR FRENCH TRANSLATIONS OF THE KORAN ON THE WEB.

Why do you assume I would refuse to believe what is in the koran?
Just give me section and verse and I can look it up. Pretty simple, huh?

I never said you said that the Jewish community in Iran was a threat.
I was pointing out that because they are not a threat to Iran leadership
then Iran leadership can afford to be magnanimous to the very small
Jewish section in Iran. Dude, you really need to learn to read.

He does tend to sound self-contradictory at times.
I think he does not even read some of his own words.

In Western Europe and North America, those on the political Left defend Islam out of a mixture of Idealogical kinship and plain old outrageously naive political correctness. Those on the Right attack Islam because they either understand that submitting to the Islamists means servitude or death OR because they are Christian fanatics who just hate anyone who is not either Christian or Jewish (and the most extreme of them hate the Jews, too)

I do not accept that Islam – as a faith – is based on hatred and intolerance. I DO accept that the majority of the Muslim world is primitive and uneducated….and – therefore – easily lead. If we are to defeat the fundamentalist, we must use a two-pronged assault upon them: The one line of attack is to utilize our intelligence apparatus and military forces to track them down and kill them as quickly and efficiently as possible. The other prong is a massive public relations/propaganda assault upon the Muslim world as a whole. The message we must send them is:

We recognize that these extremists are not true Muslims….if you read your koran with an open heart, you will find nothing in there that justifies what they are doing. HOWEVER: You must stand with us, against them, or we will assume you are with them and against us. We have no wish to wage a war against Islam, but if you choose them over us, then you are not true Muslims and – as such – you become fair game.

The number of Christian fanatics in reality is much smaller than
you appear to assume. You seem overly harsh against Christians,
overly judgmental and your understanding of history is naive at best.

As to Islam as a faith, again, the most telling part is that the countries
dominated the most by muslims (Islam) tend to be the most oppressive.
Whether they learn it through their faith or not is inconsequential. The
end result, the fruits that they bear, is the most telling aspect.

This has nothing to do with pigeon holes. Your statements about organized religion, early Christianity, etc, are simply wrong historically and factually. And you made a big deal about blanket statements then used a hypocritical blanket statement about organized religion.

I find plenty of fault with various religions, including my own, but I at least try to stick with the facts.

I guarantee that if you add up the casualties of all the wars and attempts at mass-conversion that were waged in the name of religion, that number will, indeed, come out to tens of millions. I have listed only some of these chapters in history; each one of them ALONE led to a minimum of tens of thousands of casualties and some led to several millions. Remember, I said:

"…tens of millions of people have been persecuted, tortured, imprisoned and/or killed in the name of religion"

If you're trying to tell me that – if you sum up all those who have been persecuted, tortured, imprisoned and/or killed in name of religion over the last 1500 years – it does NOT amount to tens of millions, then I respectfully suggest that your knowledge of history is extremely limited.

Then, break that number down, according to who did the torturing, imprisoning, torturing and killing and there is no question that Christians have the most number of guilty.

I have made my point. YOU are the one challenging ME and, as such, you can either provide the facts and figures that prove me wrong, or we can simply agree to disagree. That's my last word on this particular thread.

You are very combative and defensive: Meaning, you suspect that your entire argument is on shaky ground.

That attitude is entirely unnecessary: We are having a discussion on several threads simultaneously, but it's really all the same topic. Many of the points each of us has raised are pure opinion, based on our entirely different life experiences and knowledge-gathering opportunities. The only points on which I stand firm is the assertion about casualties of religious strife and about Islam NOT being a religion of hate and intolerance (or – if you like – not more so than any other religion).

Beyond that, I dispute nothing you have said, but merely accept it as a differing opinion. You, on the other hand, seem determined to "prove" me wrong at every turn, but you cannot prove an opinion wrong and If you believe you can, then you would feel more at home on the thinkprogressive forum.

It's a bit late for you to be adding up the numbers
AFTER you made the claim. An honest person
adds the numbers up first, then makes the claim.
Just a bit of wise advice.

Secondly, how do you judge which ones were killed
"in the name of religion" and which ones were killed
in defense of Jews and or as a result of Muslim aggression?

I am challenging you? Yes, and you just admitted
that you did not even add the numbers up yourself,
you just assume.

And again, bottom line, no way in hell to prove which
ones were killed "in the name of religion" and which
ones were killed as part of a plan to stop muslim
aggression.

PP, There was no claim of a popularity contest, or anything similar.
You are missing the point, again.
Please try to pay attention.
Islam is not even close to being of peace or even a religion. It wants a piece, of all. It is a faith of submission, little freedom & conquest.
You would do well to learn more. http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/ http://www.citizenwarrior.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

If more citiznes don't learn more, it will be your ignorant type of attitude, leading to more freedom erosion (much already, from US gov) & eventual downfall.

PP, You stated nothing to counter my previous statement.
You don't need to bring your low self-esteem into this, along with these broad accusations & the avoidance of the issues.

PP, You type "Muslim-haters". WTF? With the exception of just a few individuals, there is no indication of that. The WTC mosque clearly does not fall under the hate category. Have you forgotten the USS Cole & the WTC destruction?
It was Muslim fanatics that started this (WW 4) & did those killings. Now there has been action against Taliban, AlQueda & such, not against all Muslims.

Sorry, to say, but your use of logic & generalization is way off. Lefties use fallacious reasoning often; it is about their only way to discuss things bend/twist the issues & the minds of some.

[You are very combative and defensive: Meaning, you suspect that your entire argument is on shaky ground.]

Me? You're not projecting your own combative nature are you? After all, you just said that "'m willing to bet – you will absolutely refuse to believe are in there", which makes you the combative one. So if you figure that attitude is unnecessary, you may want to stop being combative yourself. Again, pretty simple, huh?

[You, on the other hand, seem determined to "prove" me wrong at every turn]

Funny, but this has been a two way conversation, mr hypocrite. You should work on your own problems before correcting them in others. Because it makes you look kind of dumb when you are more guilty of the very things you accuse others of. Which is why others have called you a bit of a know it all.

OK I'm done with the childish insults. You try to put words into my mouth and then insult me when I call you on it. I'm done with this thread. I'll post some quotes from the koran, as promised, in the other thread.

5. The Feast:

"We decreed to the Children of Israel that if anyone kills a person – unless in retribution for murder, or spreading corruption in the land – it is as if he kills all mankind, while if any saves a life it is as if he saves the lives of all mankind."

From the same Surah:

"For the (Muslim) believers, the Jews, the Sabians and the Christians – those who believe in God and the Last Day and do good deeds – there is no fear; they will not grieve."

Lots of hatred and intolerance there, huh? But, so that you don't think I'm ONLY pulling those passages that back up my point, I'll shortly post a couple that are more critical of Jews and Christians – after all, it's those passages that the extremists use to spread their hatred.

I am simply saying that you misread my comment then made
claims about me that were not true. You really need
to be less thin skinned dude.

Let me recap for you.

My comment was that Jews in Iran are not a threat to Iranian leadership
so Iran can afford to be "tolerant". Their tolerance would not be tested
unless Jews in Iran became a threat. But since their numbers and therefore
their power is so small, they will not be considered a threat to Iranian leadership.

And damned it dude, if you don't like insults, quit insulting others. Otherwise
you just look like a damned hypocrite and a stupid one at that.

That's a good example. Thanks.

That is a nice example, again.

However, I have to point out that when you said this in one of your posts above "Religion is for the weak and those who lack faith, as they need someone else to tell them how pious they are", one might logically conclude that you are an intolerant extremist spreading hate.

So maybe you should tone down your comments a bit, or clean up your own problems first.

middle eastern terrorism is nothing new. Why are some people pretending that before 9/11 it didnt occur?

That was a reference to the Singing Group in the late 1970's one of there big hits "In the Navy" for example. But with the village idiot in office, its a tough call!

"it becomes quite clear that the 'unbelievers' were the pagan, polytheistic Arabs who attempted to destroy Islam when it first began to gain popularity"

Except for all those Jews he massacred that one time.

Other than that………….

""There are Christian and even Jewish communities that exist, unmolested, in almost all other Muslim countries…..including Iran! "

How many hundreds of thousands of Jews were kicked out of their native (Islamic) countries after the creation of Isreal?

How come no one has a woody over THEIR "right of return"?

Pilgrim –

You're not concerned with what others think about you…but you call me 'a vomiting nutjob' because the liberal left will think you're ignorant because of my opinion?

Is this the problem…you are so fearful and intimidated by these bullies that you're going to sit there and say see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, while evil runs over the rest of us?

You also seem to read the Koran a bit much to be a 'patriot'? And your knowledge about Christians killing millions is pretty ignorant. The Roman Catholic Church does not represent all of Christianity….just for your information you might want to study the history of the Christian Church a tad deeper than your shallow understanding of its history.

Good point.

I have not added any numbers, either before or after. My statement has the same validity as someone saying "There are tens of millions of starts in the universe". Would you dispute it, purely because no one has actually counted them? No, you wouldn't. The number of tens of millions of stars is an assumption, based upon other assumptions, but true, nevertheless.

So, as proof of what you are saying, you provide a link to sites that all clearly have an anti-Islamic agenda?……..really???

That's like me telling you Obama is the greatest President ever and providing links to MSNBC to prove my point!

And since you brought this up…I'm not advocating the killing of all the Muslims, just speaking what I believe to be Truth.
That Jesus Christ, is the Savior of the World….and thus, not Islam's founder, Mister Mohammad .

Or in your esteemed opinion, am I not allowed to hold my personal beliefs and speak them without fear of reprisals?

To settle all arguments over "equal rights for religions"…Islam is not a religion thus it does not satisfy the criteria for equal protection under the law. Islam is a political/cultural phenomena that over the years, as a result of the demands of the Qu'ran vis a vis the Sharia laws has been widely accepted as a religion. One must observe the inconsistencies in the Qu'ran from start to finish, the latest dictates in that book have a direct contradiction to earlier entries & those later entries over rule the early ones. Now, if these entries were supposedly from a supreme being, wouldn't one expect strict consistencies? Allah, for all his/her perfections isn't going to be changing his/her mind as is the case in this holier than holy instruction manual, ya think? This logic works for me, 100%, any other takers?

I'd like to point one thing out to you as far as you seeming to draw a line between islam & marxism, that line is a perfect parallel in that the two ideologies are so intertwined that at most points they are indistinguishable from each other. Make sense?

Here are some more lines from Surah 5. These are about the most "anti-Jew" passages in the koran and one can easily see how the fundamentalists have used such passages for their own ends:

"You who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as allies: they are allies only to each other."

Once again, historical context is important: At the time of Muhammed receiving the koran, Islam really WAS fighting for it's very survival – as opposed to today, when the fundamentalists are trying to convince all Muslims that Islam is fighting to survive.

"Say [Prophet] 'People of the Book, do you resent us for any reason other than the fact that we believe in God, in what has been sent down to us, and in what was sent before us, while most of you are disobedient?' Say 'Shall I tell you who deserves a worse punishment from God then [the one you wish upon] us? Those God distanced from Himself, was angry with, and condemned as apes and pigs, and those who worship idols: they are worse in rank and have strayed further from the right path.

Note the reference to apes and pigs…something that Palestinian children are taught as a way to describe Jews.

It is apparent that you have failed to do any research on most of
the subjects you have broached today. As to stars in the universe
astronomers actually have estimated how many there are, and there
are quite a few more than tens of millions. The more correct
estimation of stars in the universe are 10 to the 21st power.
With only aprx 2500 of them being visible to the naked eye
under ideal viewing conditions from any single spot.
Your guess was off by an order of 14 magnitudes.
So no, your number is not true, nevertheless and
some simple research could have been done by you
to come up with a more truthful answer.

You also made some rather hypocritical statements about others
in the process of "correcting" them. As the good book states
before you try to remove the mote (tiny thing) from your brother's
eye you should first remove the beam (large bulky thing) from
your own eye.

Well, I guess that what separates me from the "intolerant extremists" is that – regardless of my own feelings about organized religions, I have no problem with anyone worshipping whatever God or Gods they choose and in whatever manner they wish.

I do not have to tone down my comments: I have the freedom to express my opinion. However, I do not begrudge anyone their faith or their belief. I have sat for hours in the company of Christians and been lectured about God's love and how me must all repent and seek His forgiveness, etc, etc. I've sat for hours with Muslims and listened to remarkably similar lectures.

My disdain for religion has very little to do with the message, but has everything to do with the way it divides people and sets them at each other's throats.

I do not believe that the faithful need to wave incense around, eat wafers, kneel facing the east or stand in front of an old wall to find God.

My apologies if you find that disrespectful. I will never look down upon you or anyone else for their 'religion'. What you quoted me as saying seems to reveal otherwise and I admit that I can, at times, be less than tactful. I merely attempt (however badly) to express my belief that a person's relationship with God has nothing to do with Preachers, Priests, Rabbis, Imams or any particular buildings, trinkets or other objects of worship. Religious leaders don't want you to believe that, however, because then they would lose their power, influence and livelihoods.

Actually, Muslims were driven from Croatia and Serbia and those two states then attempted to commit genocide against the Muslims of Bosnia. The leaders of all three States: Milosevic of Serbia (Yugoslavia), Izedbegovic of Bosnia and Tudzman of Croatia could all have been classed as tyrants (Tudzman was a Fascist, Izedbegovic was corrupt and power-hungry and Milsovevic was a Communist and also a complete Psychopath).

Most Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims) Considered themselves Bosnians who just happened to have been born Muslim. There were no extremists in Bosnia until the massacres started. The Bosniaks used to drink alcohol, chase women and general had a good time alongside their Serb (Orthodox) and Croat (Catholic) neighbors, until the political leaders on all sides set them against each other – in the name of religion, of course.

You are correct, however, that the Croatians and Muslims allied themselves with the Nazis and set up death camps for the Serbs.

Having read that section more completely, in a Quran Explore on the internet, it turns out that the implication is that if the Jews and or Christians give up their own faith and believe in Allah (the true God, according to Muslims) then they have no need to grieve or fear. The same section goes on to say that those that believe in Christ as the son of God will never make it to heaven and are destined for hell or the fiery pit. So the section you listed is not really all that tolerant after all, it is just saying that if the Jew or Christian finally converts then you will be ok. You simply took it out of context.

Failed to do the research, huh? Ok….whatever you say. The fact that I've spent as many hours reading history as most people have spent watching TV amounts to a failure to do any research. Nice one….way to make a completely unfounded assumption!

I will not continue threads that lead only to false assumptions and false accusations. I'm in my forties…..which is way too damn old to play such games.

My point was completely logical and completely obvious: At the risk of repeating myself…

Look at the last 1500 years of human history and look at all the instances where one group of people persecuted, or fought with, another group of people IN THE NAME OF RELIGION (point being that religion is only sometimes the real motive, but it's used as an excuse, nonetheless, and people are gullible enough to see it as a good enough reason); then put together the numbers of casualties/victims of all of those events and then try to tell yourself – with a straight face – that it DOESN'T add up to tens of millions!

This is a childishly simple argument and I'm not going to explain it again. If you still don't see, then it's because you simply refuse to believe it. That's your choice!

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