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This is just another example of unionised crews not doing there job not caring about there costomers. Passengers are told arrive two hour early but and entire crew arrivers at the same time one and a half hours late. This is why this year we should boycatt America Airlines, and not fly. they over book, cut there services, and are not good to the customer.
I’snt it funny how they were all late, I bet you they stayed out partiing late in the night and the whole thing was planned. shme on the Airlines.
don’t fly this whole year boycott these ungreatful unionised assholes.

[...] heckle crew, get to stay in MIA a little longer Breitbart.tv American Airlines Cancels Flight Due to Hostile Passengers PAX heckle crew, get to stay in MIA a little [...]

AA does stink, but so do rude yankees. You reap what you sow!

I dont like to pay for less service.

The flight crew does not have the right to not be offended. They should have done their jobs.

You cant boycoptt airlines. All losses will be covered by gov’t subsidies.

Passengers have no right to act the way these passengers did. We (Flight Crews) are professionals, working for peanuts so you can have cheap tickets. Has not anyone stopped to consider why the crew was late? Perhaps it was because they had just worked another flight into Miami that was late getting in. If you want to be treated like kings, by a personal jet. Even then you won’t be able to bypass the delays in the ATC system.

Soros, you are an idiot and obviously have no idea how the airlines work. Perhaps they all arrived on another aircraft from another city late. Maybe they got in very late the night before and needed FAA mandated legal MINIMUM rest. Either situation would have the ENTIRE crew arriving at the gate late.

Sorros why do you think the entire crew arrived at the same time? BECAUSE THEY STAY AT THE SAME HOTEL ON LAYOVERS AND RIDE THE SAME HOTEL SHUTTLE TO GET TO WORK AT THE SAME TIME. Get some education before you criticise others….and learn about crew rest.

No standby crew available?

All I see is excuses for poor service. If the crew cannot provide the service the passengers paid for, the airline should provide another crew, or alternate flights.

Lets face it, flying costs more yet seats are smaller, flights are more often late, luggage is lost more often, and a passenger has little to no recourse.
I should allow you to give me less than I paid for?

Flying costs more? what planet are you on? The price is less than it was in 1980!

Pilots are people and need to get sleep after working a 15 hour day? since when? Why does it not say on my ticket that pilots and flight attendants are human and have to eat and sleep?
If you want to get from MIA to LGA for $100, take greyhound. But their federally mandated rest requirements are probably more stringent than pilot rest requirements so you might depart 2 hours late instead of just 1 hour late!

Gotta love New Yorkers – They speak their minds, doing all the right stuff, crucifying the messenger.

However AA got their point across passenger at La Guardia International and luggage at Kennedy Airport – gotta love that service.

I fly often for my job and costs of airline travel have gone up a lot.

As for the dubious 1980 statistic, that may be cost in raw dollars but not in percentage of income.

Cheap tickets? I say, HOORAY, for the boo-ing..
Cabin crew think they are God’s gift to transportation…all they are are cart pushers in the sky…nobody thinks of them as “glamorous” anymore. I’m glad passengers are fighting back and letting them know that they are just workers in a service industry job, and are no better than the people sitting on the plane!

Why were they in such a hurry to get back to New York, of all places?

Ok people, why are the idiots at the gate blaming the CREW? Blame the airline if you want, but not the crew…heck the newscast doesnt even give the reason for the delay, but some of you know it alls just have to say something stupid about the crew without knowing any details. What would you do if someone came in your office and started shouting at you and giving you the finger for something beyond your control? Would you serve him? I think not…

“credible July 8th, 2008 – 11:44 am

Why were they in such a hurry to get back to New York, of all places?”

Good pizza.

“katiemtown July 8th, 2008 – 11:48 am

Ok people, why are the idiots at the gate blaming the CREW? Blame the airline if you want, but not the crew…”

When you are stuck on a plane and can’t get off, the crew become the voice and face of the airline.

If I was being paid 10’s of thousands of dollars to provide a service and the recipient of that service gets insulting because of me or my companies shoddy performance, Im still going to provide that service.

uhh Sean LISTEN TO THE REPORT. They were not “stuck on a plane and couldn’t get off” They were waiting at the gate, in the airport.

Yeah I missed that first time around. Same rule applies.
Does that excuse poor service?

Hey Sean,

Again, this is nothing that free alcohol for the passengers won’t fix.

I hear ya cred

What a bunch of spoiled whiny wimps. The crew is late? Screw em, just take off without them, let the crew catch the next plane. You can’t ruin you day because a bunch of over-paid, under-worked losers are too lazy to get to work on time.

The airlines need to be de-regulated. Let the free market take care of it and everything will work perfectly.

Pasenger Right said “The crew is late? Screw em, just take off without them, let the crew catch the next plane.”

WOW. How is the plane going to take off without the flight crew?? No wonder the rest of the world thinks americans are DUMB!!!!!!

the airlines are deregulated! Are you still in 1st grade, seriously??

I almost think your post is a joke….where are the cameras???

I agree Beerkg, I’m willing to bet Pasenger Right’s family tree has no branches…..

“beerkg July 8th, 2008 – 12:17 pm

Pasenger Right said “The crew is late? Screw em, just take off without them, let the crew catch the next plane.”

WOW. How is the plane going to take off without the flight crew?? No wonder the rest of the world thinks americans are DUMB!!!!!!”

Your example not withstanding.
Obviously he means provide another crew.

Sean I would like to agree with you that that is what he meant, but after seeing some people that are on flights I have been on, I’m not sure that’s what he really meant…I have been on flights where someone has said “there are no pilots on the new airplanes, it is all computers flying!!” And they were serious :(

plus the fact that he said we need to de-regulate the airlines and all will be better proves he has no clue what he is talking about….

“beerkg July 8th, 2008 – 12:28 pm

Sean I would like to agree with you that that is what he meant, but after seeing some people that are on flights I have been on, I’m not sure that’s what he really meant…I have been on flights where someone has said “there are no pilots on the new airplanes, it is all computers flying!!” And they were serious”

I would like to disagree but my own experience demands I that I admit you are right. Its really scary sometimes.

“beerkg July 8th, 2008 – 12:30 pm

plus the fact that he said we need to de-regulate the airlines and all will be better proves he has no clue what he is talking about….”

Well there are somethings that the govt should not be involved in. I just wish we didnt have to bail them out so often…but air carraige is vital to our economy.

apparently Pasenger doesn’t realize that it was in the 70’s when the airlines became deregulated, and that they are currently deregulated

Overpaid and under-worked . . . I want you to try and live on $20,000 a year and be home only 10 days a month. I want you to work 15 hour days followed by 8 hours on the ground (not sleep, but landing to next takeoff) and another 15 hour day.

Think I’m lying? Do some research.

Those passengers deserved what they got. I wish it happened more often.

Your so stupid, most unionised flight attendance make about $60.000 a year. The two i am personally friends with work and average of 10 days a month. Sure they may fly 8-10 hours a day,
then they have abought 7 days off. Don’t believe these stupid flight atrtendants on the net, crying about there over paid jobs. There basically high flying cocktail waitresses.

Pasenger Right July 8th, 2008 – 12:12 pm

What a bunch of spoiled whiny wimps. The crew is late? Screw em, just take off without them, let the crew catch the next plane. You can’t ruin you day because a bunch of over-paid, under-worked losers are too lazy to get to work on time.

…..
Hey genious, they weren’t late because they were lazy, they were late becuase the flight they got in on was late, or they needed to get their FAA mandated rest. The ignorance of some people just amazes me…

I should have got a job at UPS, or FEDEX- The boxes are smarter Than the passengers. No wonder the railroads fought to get out of the passenger side of the business in the 60’s and 70’s; Pax are more of a hassle than they are worth.

I’m sick and tired of seeing passengers act like spoiled children. Be thankful you get tickets for the prices you do. They are still MUCH cheaper than they were 20 years ago! Don’t expect 5 star service when you look for the cheapest price out there!

We don’t know why the flight crew was late. Does anyone honestly think they are doing that ON PURPOSE?! There are any number of reasons the pilots were late.

These people need to grow up and deal with it.

Oh and Pasenger Right, learn to spell, it’s passenger not pasenger…

Pilots are generally overworked and underpaid. Very few are the opposite, although everyone things so. Starting pay at some airlines is less than $20k a year, and you can be expected to work 14 hours a day, and be expected to be at work on weekends and holidays.

So say you’re getting paid that ammount, and are nearing the end of your 14 hour day and some guys wants to give you crap for not making his life perfect. How would you react?

People don’t line up for these jobs because they have skills, or are hard, they want the one day on five days off. they are easy.

COFFEE, PEANUTS, CHIPS, “YOU HAVE MONEY HEREIS MY PHONE NUMBER.

OVERPAID COCKTAIL WAITRESSES.

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So as I understand it, I should pay for a service and if I get less than I paid for I should shut up and be happy with whatever service I get.

Sheep.

Air lines bailed out?! Which one? Pan Am? Braniff? Eastern? Chrysler? Oh yeah, Chrysler. But hey, they are not an airline. Typical lack of history knowledge.

Sean July 8th, 2008 – 1:07 pm

So as I understand it, I should pay for a service and if I get less than I paid for I should shut up and be happy with whatever service I get.

Sheep.

…no but you should direct your frustration at the company management, not the workers in the trenches.

“You July 8th, 2008 – 1:21 pm

Air lines bailed out?! Which one? Pan Am? Braniff? Eastern? Chrysler? Oh yeah, Chrysler. But hey, they are not an airline.”

In the last ten years – 2001 (yes we needed that one), 2002 and 2005.

” Typical lack of history knowledge”

Those who live in glass houses…

“katiemtown July 8th, 2008 – 1:26 pm

…no but you should direct your frustration at the company management, not the workers in the trenches”

Sure. Try and make an appointment with company management. Why are the people who are late to be spared?
Trenches? Its not like its hard labor.
Who on the inside can change the industry the most? The pilots.

Someone needs to legally define “hostile” so we have some basis for punishing workers who refuse to do their jobs. I’m tired of spineless people hijacking words like “hostile” and throwing them around in attempts to prejudice the opinion of others. There is nothing wrong with having and displaying emotions.

Was anybody threatened? The story didn’t indicate that. If there were no threats, these stewardesses should be fired. Hell, whoever was responsible for that crew being late should be fired. They didn’t show up until the time the plane was supposed to land at its destination? Come on. That’s some sucky customer service. Someone at the airline needs to be fired. But they won’t. That’s why we have no faith in the airline industry… like Greyhound with wings.

No bailouts in any above years. If you think Chapter 11, and 7 are bailouts then think again.

C’mon. Since they felt that they were not liked enough they should add insult to injury and not do their jobs!

How arrogant!

“You July 8th, 2008 – 1:32 pm

No bailouts in any above years. If you think Chapter 11, and 7 are bailouts then think again.”

Google is your friend.

The crew was an hour and fifteen minutes late? Why? If they had to get an extra hour plus of “rest” perhaps the passengers should have been told so that they didn’t have to sit around cooling their heels wondering what was going on. What if someone had a connecting flight or an appointment they had to meet? This is totally irresponsible behavior on the part of the airline. If passengers got surly later on it is because of the company’s incompetence for not handling the situation better. Some of he crew felt “uncomfortable”? Poor babies–maybe they should find another profession.

Oh, and before you POME’s get too full of yourselves, wasn’t there an “incident” at Heathrow Airport recently where a passenger was bumped off a flight because he was wearing a transformer T shirt? I also seem to recall a row over there because of lost baggage.

I find it incredible, what the traveling public thinks the lifestyle of air crew is like. Flight attendants are well trained in many fields. Customer service is a secondary job for them. They are there for safety and first aid.

FAA rest rules are very archaic and should be changed, but too many lobbyist are preventing change. We are required to have a minimum of 8 hours off in a 24 hour period. That is not 8 hours of sleep, that is 8 hours from parking at the gate, to showing up at the gate prior to the next flight. The time walking to the hotel van, waiting for the van, riding to the hotel, showering, eating, and going back to the airport are all included in that 8 hours. That sometimes equates to no more than 6 hours in bed. If a flight is late, that will push back the next flight.

As for working only a few days a month for tons of money, you really need to look at the payscales are work rules. My wife would love it if I were home more, and made more money. I am gone a minimum of 19 days a month, and take home $1800 a month. I have yet to make over 55k a year flying airplanes.

“Google is your friend”

Yes it is. Now why don’t you read the articles instead of the headlines.

Mark, Flight crew aren’t just cart pushers. They go through months of proper training. And you have no idea why the crew was late. They didn’t just wake up and decide to be hour late. There was a reason, probably a late inbound flight. And I totally respect the decision of the flight crew not to go. Its not safe to take a bunch of hostile passengers all tight in a metal tube. I would have canceled the flight too.

You. Go ahead and stay willfully ignorant.

NWA pilot. Sorry for your job issues. All pilots I know (only 3 truthfully- 2 airline one UPS) live in real nice houses. *shrug*

I googled and found 12 bailouts of varying degress over 10 years. 7 were from forgiving govt loan debt

By ‘Not Flying American’
“The crew was an hour and fifteen minutes late? Why? If they had to get an extra hour plus of “rest” perhaps the passengers should have been told so that they didn’t have to sit around cooling their heels wondering what was going on. What if someone had a connecting flight or an appointment they had to meet? This is totally irresponsible behavior on the part of the airline. If passengers got surly later on it is because of the company’s incompetence for not handling the situation better. Some of he crew felt “uncomfortable”? Poor babies–maybe they should find another profession.”

Wow, you are an idiot. You need to get a grip of reality. Late crews happens everyday through no fault of their own. And the crew feeling “uncomfortable.” Thats actually a safetly issue. Can you deal with 130 mad passengers stuck in a metal tube? I don’t think so. And missed connections happen all the time too. Its just part of the business. I’d rather be late to my destination than not make it at all, when dealing with weather and mechanical problems.

“Chris July 8th, 2008 – 2:08 pm

Wow, you are an idiot. You need to get a grip of reality. Late crews happens everyday through no fault of their own. And the crew feeling “uncomfortable.” Thats actually a safetly issue. Can you deal with 130 mad passengers stuck in a metal tube? I don’t think so. And missed connections happen all the time too. Its just part of the business. I’d rather be late to my destination than not make it at all, when dealing with weather and mechanical problems.”

Insults lessen your argument.
It sounds to me that you have accepted shoddy service as the norm.
It can onlyget better in the consumers demand it be so. Caving in garauntees that the airlines will give you the least they can.

Hi…REMEMBER ME, I’m the CUSTOMER!!

I don’t agree with the extremely abusive way the airline crew was treated, but remember this:

I’m the one providing the revenue for the business you are a part of running, and I’m the one who can make a difference by spending that money somewhere else.

I’m the one who ultimately determines the destiny of the airline industry. And trust us; the customer will always win in the end! There will be someone to take your place AA!! And as the providers shrink, so do the available positions. So those who are demeaning and disrespectful to the customer will eventually be weeded out.

Don’t ever take the customer for granted. You might find yourself without them in the end.

Then what?

Sean, paying less to travel a few thousand miles in 3-4 hours for less than it would cost for the gas to drive yourself there in a few DAYS is what guarantees you bad service.

Thomas…how so? I think a properly informed consumer can have a decent to pleasant experience on the airlines.
I travel often and my experience has been 80% positive.

If you yelled at a cab driver or bus driver you would be kicked out.

Do you really expect the two pilots (who have all the passengers lives in their hands) to be able to go and concentrate on their jobs when the entire group of passengers have just abused them. Sorry but if something went wrong, the FAA would be taking away licenses and asking if they were under stress they should not have been flying. Under FAA rules pilots cannot fly if they feel they are not capable. Stress + stressful job = bad outcome.

Good for the crew. I have been part of a crew and we were an hour late or more to operate by our flight, through no fault of our own. Crews operate more than just your flight and may operate 2-5 flights a day. If we get delayed for weather, airport congestion, maintenance, or another reason it will cause a delay.

We don’t deserve hostility towards us especially when we are going to take your lives in our hands. I’m glad they put these people in their place. Hopefully it taught the misbehaved passengers a lesson. Just because you bought a ticket, doesn’t mean you can act like an ass and verbally abuse employees.

In this post 9/11 world…ah SKIP IT!

RE: Customer July 8th, 2008 – 2:26pm

I did not advocate the abusive treatment of the crew. My response is to remind the airlines and their crews that we receive similar treatment and we are paying customers.

Trust me…I have seen some pretty nasty attendant treatment of customers and been on the receiving end of rude and snobbish flight attendants, and yet it never makes the news.

We can’t abruptly stop a flight like the crew did to deal with the hostile behavior, but we can shut down an entire airline with our actions. It will just take a little more time to achieve it.

“I dont like to pay for less service.

The flight crew does not have the right to not be offended. They should have done their jobs.”

Actually, they did just that. Safety is the #1 priority. If they thought taking over a hundred passengers being rude, and a handful being belligerent and abusive, in an aluminum tube traveling at Mach .78-.82 was a safety hazard, then they had all the legal right in the World to refuse to work the flight.

BTW, when you purchased your ticket I bet you read the various conventions you’re bound to. Many of them refer to the right of the crew, and in particular the Captain, to refuse the transport of passengers in the interest of safety.

I’m not saying the situation could have been handled differently by American, but I do think the crew made the correct choice. Also, it doesn’t matter how much you paid for a ticket, it doesn’t give you the right to break the law, as it seams a couple on this flight did (disorderly conduct).

How was it less safe? If their feelings get hurt are they less able to provide for the safety of the passengers?

Seems liek a crew just decided to get revenge for feelin insulted and abused a dubious rule.

Well Sean the airlines are in a no win situation. With an industry that is so vulnerable to the economy, gas, etc., they should be charging more for tickets so that they have enough cash reserves to ride out the downturns and high gas prices. Instead it is like they are living pay check to pay check and as soon as something happens they are all in the red. People buy the cheapest tickets and then they turn around and complain about the service. For an airline to be able to make a small profit off of low cost tickets this requires them to use each aircraft non-stop, which means that if something goes wrong with one flight it can affect many people. Add to that the security delays that have nothing to do with the airlines and the ATC system that is so outdated that many of the features that are available in the modern cockpits really cannot be put to there full use.

Your statements about the salaries of pilots is also incorrect. It is true that once you have worked your way up the ladder you can earn 100-200k (if your lucky). Take a look at these pilots, they all are past age 40. The average pilot starts off earning 20k a year and slowly works there way up. Add to that the cost of flight training and a college degree and it is a hard life. Then you have the real chance of getting furloughed (laid off), taking pay cuts, and losing part of your retirement. Health problems, you lose your license. Ever get arrested, you lose your license. Ever have a small accident, you can lose your license. It is not the job that many people think it is.

Say the situation was dangerous. How it is made safer by further angering a dangerous crowd and letting the staff behind the desk deal with it?

If it was dangerous how come the staff manned the desk the entire time? They must not have felt it was dangerous.

The “dangerous” people were allowed to remain on airport property.

Thomas, thanks for the background.

No matter what I pay, I expect to get the service I paid for or compensated for whatever portion I do not get.

Hey Sean,

Can I get you a beer?

“credible July 8th, 2008 – 3:08 pm

Hey Sean,

Can I get you a beer?”

You are my hero.

It was dangerous because when people are stressed they make mistakes. Pilot makes a mistake and people can get hurt. People get hurt and then their families will be asking why the pilots made a mistake. Get the point? I am not sure if you have kids, but if you have ever gone on a family trip you would know that if there is a fight then that drive is not going to be good. Just imagine if you feel like that while flying in a tube going 500mph with a few thousands gallons of highly flammable fuel.

I crack myself up.

Stress. They cant fly if they are stressed.

Man now I have heard it all.

So Thomas, you believe the price of a ticket should be equal to the level of service?

So, what happens when we decide to pay zero for a ticket? Where does that leave the level of service?

Right, you won’t have a passenger to serve. That is where you are headed with that type of thinking, nowhere!

This is the same mistake that the automotive “Big 3” made, and look at them now…losing business to car manufactures that provided better quality and service for a lower price.

Don’t forget that at the end of the day you need us! Without us you have no business!

What I see from the incident in New York (although extremely regretful and wrong in the way it was handled by the passengers), is a small result of things to come.

The airline industry needs to learn from other industry mistakes and begin to treat the customer with respect…regardless of the ticket price.

Customer, actually you need us more than we need you. If there is less airlines then you pay more for your tickets (I think there should be 3-4 big airlines only), if there is no airlines then you will not have to worry about flying because the economy will be in a depression. These passengers from New York will go to book a ticket next year and will book with American if it is the cheapest. There is no loyalty to any airline people just book the cheapest ticket they find.

I personally do not care. I am sitting in a hotel in Paris, I fly for a European airline, get paid good, and I do not have to deal the with disrespectful childlike attitude of passengers in America. Sometimes people even clap when we land over here, and the flight attendents are young and good looking instead of old or gay. I would drive a bus before I would ever work for an American airline.

“How was it less safe? If their feelings get hurt are they less able to provide for the safety of the passengers?

Seems liek a crew just decided to get revenge for feelin insulted and abused a dubious rule.”

Hostile passengers are an obstacle to the expeditious ground evacuation of an Aircraft, and to the physical safety of the Flight Attendants who are the only line of defense (Pilots keep that armed door shut in the event of a commotion). Surely they would have had to Comp drinks, degrading the safety of the Flight Attendants even more.

Insult the Captain on your $15,000 Holland America cruise, you get booted off the ship at the next port of call. Yell at your cabbie, get dropped off at the curb. Same for the Bus Driver and the Train Conductor.

So guess what…yell at the crew and get left at the gate, nevermind the fact that they are required by law to do so as well.

We don’t want to be delayed any longer than you do…our day gets longer too, and it means going to bed without dinner and short rest, your cell phone getting turned on after your wife and kids have gone to bed (on a daily basis, so don’t tell me about the one time you missed dinner traveling).

Sean, your friends are in the top 5% of the industry…ask them about the first 15 years of their career. Myself and the majority of pilots are military trained and spent half of our careers sitting on a rocket powered seat, getting shot at, with wives wondering if we’ll come home that night. We simply expect to not go to work in a hostile environment, and have earned the right not to and walk away. Nobody in America should be subjected to verbal abuse in the workplace….period.

And at the most superficial level, you don’t have the right to hurt anyone’s feelings, whether its the Captain, the Flight Attendant or the cashier at McDonald’s. Customer Service is a two-way street, no respectable company tolerates the abuse of its employees in the name of “Customer Service.” Its this kind of abuse that forces the GOOD gate agents and Flight Attendants to quit, the ones that gave you the service on your “good” airline experiences in the 70’s and 80’s.

“Customer Service is a two-way street, no respectable company tolerates the abuse of its employees in the name of “Customer Service.” Its this kind of abuse that forces the GOOD gate agents and Flight Attendants to quit, the ones that gave you the service on your “good” airline experiences in the 70’s and 80’s.”

Yet they feel its ok for their crew to refuse to fly if their feelings get hurt?
Its ok to inconveneince people because they feel offended?

If everytime the passengers get angry is a reason to not provide the service that they paid for, then its no wonder that the airlines are the way they are.

You are late to do your job. Do you expect all smiley faces? Get the plane flying, announce the phone number for customer complaints (if one exists) and things will simmer down. Honestly, no matter how bad my flight was, once I arrive at my destination I do not want to stick around and complain. I beat feet out like all the rest.

That crew just told the passengers “you and your concerns do not mean anything to us. You are only cattle and we will be paid anyway”

As for your climbing the job ladder, everyone has to. You have not earned the right to ignore your customers complaints. Maybe you have the right to send a designated professional who can handle it better, if your company has such a person. the mistake was in sending the crew to deal with the situation. Likely the situation was being ignored by the staff.

Thomas, basic economics defaults your statement “you need us more than we need you”.

The airline industry is already beginning to bear the pressure from the market. And as those who choose not to change die off, there will be others to take advantage of the void and fill it.

So Thomas, there will always be someone who will supply the demand. The beauty of capitalism.

You can tell your grandchildren that you once flew in a plane.

Your grandchildren never will be able to.

Sean,
My previous posting was “awaiting moderation” for some reason. He is a “modified” version.
You are absolutely right. The crew is “stressed out” and might make a mistake? Like what? Maybe the stew will give me an extra bag of peanuts. She sure isn’t going to give me anything else edible. The pilots are locked away in the cockpit away from any “abusive” passengers. What do you people think that this handful of irate (and it was only a few, vocal individuals) people are going to do? Hijack the plane and crash it into a building in protest? Get real! The crew got a well deserved Bronx cheer and got their little shorts in a bunch. Their response was, “Oh, yeah…well we’ll show you.” Very unprofessional.

Like I mentioned earlier, all the airline had to do was announce that “there had been an unexpected delay in the crew reaching the flight. Please be patient. We will be boarding about an hour late.” Instead they did nothing. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Federal Regulations provide the pilot in command, i.e. the captain, with the power to use his/her discretion in solely and irrevocably making the determination as to whether or not a flight should be initiated/continued based on any perceived issue of saftey – and yes that includes the behavior of the passengers.American Airlines contract of carriage, as well as every other airlines out there, which passengers enter into upon purchase of there ticket, makes no guarantee for the timeliness of there departure or arrival, save for it being within the same day, and even then you are only afforded lodging under some circumstances.The contract further states that you will be denied boarding in the event of unruly or abusive behavior, or simply because of your offensive body odor (look it up).People cannot act like children and expect to be treated like adults, and those too ignorant to understand that shouldn’t be flying at all.

SORROS – Do your research. I am a flight attendant and I would love to make $60k a year to work 10 days a month. That may apply to the most senior f/a’s, but not the majority. I only get paid when the cabin door is shut. Granted, I get perdiem for every hour that I am away from base, but its peanuts. Why do I do a job that I make less than $25k a year and spend 20+ nights away from home? Because its a job that I love.

There are Federal Regulations that can impose fines on passengers losing their minds on aircraft. I wish they would start imposing those fines and let the general public know that we are serious.

While you all may try to act all high and mighty – walk a mile in our shoes before passing judgement. You try working 16 hour days and still smile for the passengers. As for the idiot that said all we do is pass out coke cans – remember that comment the next time you have an emergency on board. Flight Attendants are not there for your comfort anymore, we are there to protect the cockpit from another 9/11 and to save your *** when you sick in the air or an emergency happens.

[...] how negativity and drama creates power struggles, stress and lost time? Look no further than the American Airlines incident where the airline flight crew arrived an hour late without [...]

Sorros you are the dumbest person I’ve ever seen post! Do some research and for God’s sake, learn to spell! Don’t go off what you know about a “friend you know” if you actually have any. And if you do know sxome pilots or flight attendants, ask them what they had to go through to get where they are.

Pilots make 20k a year starting out, it’s a very select few that make decent money and have easy schedules. Most of the time you’re going to be working 12-16 hours a day for a week, maybe get one day off, then go do it again for another week, then after that you MIGHT get 2-4 days off. If you think the job is easy, why don’t you try it and see? $60k for a flight attendant sure as hell is not what they start at. Maybe they’ll finish that high after 20 years seniority. Why don’t you ask them about the years when they probably qualified for food stamps and were away from their homes for 3 weeks every month?

Flying an airplane safely takes years of practice. And when you have hostile people in the back threatening you, and you’re going to be stuck with them for hours in a big metal tube at 40000 feet, that damn sure can be cause for concern. Remember 9-11? Before that pilots never assumed the passenegers would come up and kill them and everyone else. Now? You can’t trust that some genetic defective back there wouldn’t do something stupid and endanger everyone’s lives.

Pilots have to multitask to do their job. They cannot be distracted by a bunch of idiots in the back while they are doing their work. If they screw up, people can die. Have you ever had that kind of responsibility?

Do everyone a favor and shut the hell up, you have no clue about anything.

Thank God I fly cargo, because the self loading type are idiots.

Captain, You can repeat the sam crap over and over again, NO ONE BELIEVES YOU. Every one knows Pilots on a major airline don’t start at 20k a year idiot, They lock the cabin (so much for the distractions ) take off and dial in the route and coodinates, then auto pilot, and take turnes naping.
Your just making a ass of your selve, so quit beating a dead horse. YOUR A UNION HACK and NO ONE BELIEVES YOU moron. Your dorogatory remarks water down your stupid arguments, and make you look more of a an idiot lier hack than you really are
People don’t line up for these jobs because they have skills, or are hard, they want the one day on five days off. they are easy.

COFFEE, PEANUTS, CHIPS, “YOU HAVE MONEY HEREIS MY PHONE NUMBER.

OVERPAID COCKTAIL WAITRESSES

The ignorance displayed by so many here is appalling. I support the crew. Take those upset passengers who were stupid enough to boo the very people who were their ticket out of that place, stick them in a confined space with already hot tempers, and you quite possibly would have madness. They made the right decision.

You entrust your lives with the crew – yet call them ‘cart pushers? Come on – you lose all credibility right there buddy. If you really thought them mere cart pushers, I doubt you’d even board the plane. I guess surgeons are mere ‘pencil pushers’? Think about it.

Do you not care if your crew is rested? You’d rather they risk your sorry butt so you aren’t late? The whole crew arrived late – that’s a clue that it was due to a late inbound flight or crew rest issue. This may come as surprise, but timeliness actually takes second fiddle to safety.

And as someone has mentioned, adjusted for inflation, ticket prices are at historical lows. It’s cheaper to go greyhound for crying out loud, yet people still complain and demand more. Want to be treated like something special? Book a fractional charter flight. You’ll be treated how you think you deserve, but by god you’ll pay for it all right, as you should.

No joke.

I don’t come over to you and tell you how to do your job because I don’t know the details of it, so stop telling the people who work in aviation what we should have done. You pass such harsh judgement on this airline crew and don’t even know the full story. Maybe if the passengers had given the crew the opportunity to explain the details of what had happened this all could have been avoided, but this was not to be the case as the pax had already passed judgement on the crew with the boo-ing and verbal abuse.

Nobody ever deserves to be abused, learn to treat each other with respect

I’ve been a pilot at two major airlines for many years now. I’ve had several instances where I’ve had to have verbally abusive passengers denied boarding. I’ve even had times where an unruly passenger’s attitude has escalated into verbal or physical confrontations on the plane DURING flight. This is not only disturbing to the other passengers, but inhibits safety by taking flight attendant’s attention away from their safety checks. Some of those passengers may have even been intoxicated or were acting drunk. The high cabin altitude during cruise flight makes drunk passengers even worse (ever had a few beers up in Denver?).

A flight attendant is NOT there to serve drinks and snacks. They are there to make sure our customers are safe. Flight attendants are the first (and in some cases may be the only) people there to save your butt in an emergency! DO NOT TAKE THEM FOR GRANTED! Ever hear of that A340 in Toronto that had a runway overrun in bad weather? They evacuated 297 passengers out of a burning aircraft in about 3 or 4 minutes. People would have surely died had there not been well trained flight attendants.

The American gate agents looked like they may have dropped the ball by giving incorrect information to the passengers. Or they didn’t do a good job of diffusing the situation. Either way, the passengers had NO EXCUSE to act out like they did!

All you fellow pilots here, remember who you are dealing with here.

The same American public that hate China so much but will go shop in Walmart and buy all Chinese products before they would ever pay a few cents extra for an American product.

The same American public that talk so much **** about Arabs but really they support them by buying big SUV’s to travel alone to work.

The same American public that will look for the cheapest plane ticket and then spend $20-40 for the cab ride, $20-60 dollars on drinks and food before they get on the flight traveling thousands of miles for $100 and then turn around and complain about the lack of free food or drinks on board.

Some advice to any American pilots on here, do what I do and get the hell out of that country. In America you are looked at and treated lower than a bus driver. In the rest of the world you are looked at as a professional and people respect you. Sorry to say it but the morals of Americans are declining. What the American public need is higher ticket prices and that way they will weed out the lower class trash passengers that consider us their slaves.

Congratulations to the American crew and lets hope that more pilots will take an example from them. I sat back and watched ignorant passengers all those years I worked for an American airline and I guess I was part of the problem. As previous posters have said, we have let people get away with things that a cab or bus driver would not. Shame on us.

I really wish I was working one of those jobs making 10’s of thousands of dollars working 1 day on with 5 days off. In reality, flight crews are at work twice as much as someone with a regular 9-5 job. When you guys go home at night, you’re home. When we go home at night, we’re at a hotel. That should take care of all the “whiny over-paid time off” comments. Oh, and do a little research on airline pay rates beyond what you hear on the news, where it’s grossly misinformed and extremely over-exagerrated. I know a lot of pilots that qualify for food stamps and welfare but still show up to work to fly you around while you pay $250 to fly across the country.

As for the actions of the flight crew…good for them. The passengers left them no choice since it was obvious that they created an extremely hostile environment. Crews don’t just show up and decide on a whim they’re not going to fly. That’s a great way to get fired.

As for the free market comment, the free market will sort this out. You will get better service probably at the end of this decade. The reason you will get better service is because the cost of a ticket will be out of the price range for a lot of people. Flying is a privelege, not a right. It should cost more to fly than drive (and right now, it doesn’t). Ticket prices right now are CHEAPER than they were 20 years ago while costs for everything else have increased dramatically. Now that everyone is pulling back capacity, I can only hope this industry will right itself and charge what they should be charging…which is A LOT more than what you’re paying.

The airplanes at my airline have the ability to transmit delay codes from the cockpit to our control center. The list is two columns per page, about 8 pages long. There are plenty of reasons why flights are late.

Airlines are running loads at all time high flight loads – the planes are full and the industry is bleeding money. If we can’t make money with full planes.. there will be more changes ahead.

Our companies have already made significant changes altering our operations. Getting hot back there in coach? Yeah, we’re asked to taxi out with one engine running To save fuel. What powers the Air Conditioning? Both engines. We’re told to use steep descents so we can fly for longer at altitude (where the jet is efficient) and longer in the descent with the power at idle (No thrust = no air conditioning!)

We’re making all these changes because our companies think you won’t pay what it costs to operate a flight the way we used to. Expect more cuts in cabin service, increased fees for anything above and beyond a seat (Oh wait, Airtran already is charging for the particular seat with their seat selection).

I’m a first officer at a regional airline. We do the lion’s share of our mainline’s domestic service. I’ll make around $22,000 this year. Most of the new-hires have student loans between $65 and $100K : Their loan payments are bigger than their paychecks. Flight attendants make less than us. After all the pruning airlines have done to pare down their top-heavy payroll, there are few senior crews left.

And we ALL have to put up with whiny passengers who expect 5-star service on a $49 ticket. The Flight Attendants make sure we know about the nagging passengers. Remember, You’re not buying the fuel it takes to move you from point A to point B with that.

Maybe one of the changes you should anticipate is a tip jar next to the boarding door.

You flight crew types are truly amazing. Stews like Sky Queen may think that they do more than pass out coke cans but when was the last time you HAD an emergency? I have been flying for over 50 years and in the only emergency situation I have ever been involved in the stewardesses sat in their seats ashen faced looking like they were ready to puke. The stewardesses on 9-11 were the first casualties in many cases. I somehow don’t see Sky Queen as being capable of “protecting the cockpit” or doing anything else physical to protect passengers. Passengers will probably have to fend for themselves like they did on United flight 93. You only make 20K yet stick with the job because you “love” it so much. Fine. Then deal with the public and keep the peanuts coming.

Sorros

Go to http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com to look at current hourly pay-rates of various airlines.

I made $23 an hour my first year. At 75 hours per MONTH I made $20,700 BEFORE taxes. Oh yeah, I was home only 7-8 nights a month.

And I work for a major airline.

SORROS July 8th, 2008 – 11:33 pm

“Your just making a ass of your selve, so quit beating a dead horse.”

…..
If that’s not the pot calling the kettle black, I dont know what is!!! Every post Sorros makes just proves his ignorance on the topic. At least he has his mommy to type for him now so his spelling has improved!

Hey Sorros what is your occupation and education and how many lives do you hold in your hands on a daily basis? I want to know so I can rip holes in your career too, even tho I might be TOTALLY IGNORANT about the subject.

We don’t need Sorros to tell us his education level. I think we can all figure that one out on our own, it’s not that hard!

I went to hischool so I have a educacion. thank yu for the consern thou. You must be a stewardess who makes enough money to think you are beter than everyone esle. Thnaks to you unionised people I pay more for everything. What educacion do pilots and stewardesses have? no more than anyone else. It’s not like they are bankers or doctors or acountands.

Captain, You can repeat the sam crap over and over again, NO ONE BELIEVES YOU. Every one knows Pilots on a major airline don’t start at 20k a year idiot, They lock the cabin (so much for the distractions ) take off and dial in the route and coodinates, then auto pilot, and take turnes naping.
Your just making a ass of your selve, so quit beating a dead horse. YOUR A UNION HACK and NO ONE BELIEVES YOU moron. Your dorogatory remarks water down your stupid arguments, and make you look more of a an idiot lier hack than you really are
People don’t line up for these jobs because they have skills, or are hard, they want the one day on five days off. they are easy.

COFFEE, PEANUTS, CHIPS, “YOU HAVE MONEY HEREIS MY PHONE NUMBER.

OVERPAID COCKTAIL WAITRESSES

ditto

You sir are ignorant. The minimum education of pilots at most airlines is at least a Bachelors degree. Whether you want to believe what our starting salary or schedules are is up to you. As someone posted, the salaries are available online.

At NWA where I work, my pay is 30.09 per hour, and I get paid 75 hours a month. I am currently on day 16 in row, and finish tomorrow and then get 5 days off, before I start another 8 days on.

Sorros –

First off, spell check is your friend.

Second – why this angst against flight crews? They are highly trained and skilled people who’s primary job is to assure that you, in the back and fully trusting in them, get to your destination in one piece. There are an infinite number of variables that could occur to risk safety, and they are there to mitigate that. What would make you so angry towards them?

I’m curious – what’s your feeling towards doctors or surgeons?

Docters and surgeons have peoples lives in there control all the time. They have an educacion. I had a scholorship to med school so I know alot about it. Many more educacion and responsibilitys then pilots have. My uncle got his pilots license in 5 months, it takes 10 years to be a doctor or surgeon that should tell u something. And I saw his pilot books everything in them was easy to learn.

oh and my uncle who got his pilets license in 5 months is a docter, thank you.

This guy can’t be for real. I can not, in good conscience, accept that someone is as ignorant as this Sorros person.

If not . . .

Good for your uncle, I got mine in 5 months too. Then came my instrument, commercial, commercial multi-engine, flight instructor, flight instructor instrument, flight instructor multi-engine and then I taught others to fly. All of which took years. All of which necessary before I even had a shot at getting a job. Some take longer and some , as mentioned before, risk their lives in the service to you and this country flying for the military.

I don’t want a pat on the back for the job I do everyday. But, I do want at least a silent respect for my fellow crew, pilots and flight attendants alike.

Not Flying American – hmmmm flying 50 years and only 1 emergency. Thats because you had well trained flight crews. I hope you never have to endure an emergency. Emergencies happen every day in the air, albeit medical or flight. Flight crews are trained how to deal with both anticipated and unanticipated. I bet if you were on a plane and the “stew” (as you so eloquently put it) helps your rear off the plane you wont be thinking this way.

SKYQUEEN July 9th, 2008 – 6:25 pm

Not Flying American – I bet if you were on a plane and the “stew” (as you so eloquently put it) helps your rear off the plane you wont be thinking this way.

No, he seems like the type that would sue the flight attendant when she tripped over the wreckage and dropped him, dislocating his pinky finger.

Sorros,
Formal, in-school, education is not always the besy way to measure the worth, or difficulty of a job. Like many other industries, aviation generally requires many stepping stones, or ladder rungs, that don’t take place at school. I pretty much paid for two college educations, as my flying fees each semester were about the same as tuition. After graduating with a BS, and every pilot rating that cyrcadian mentioned, I didn’t stand a chance to get interviewed to fly a 19 seat puddle-jumper, let alone a major airline. But I knew that getting in.
So I instructed for a few years, put in 10-12 hours a day, seven days a week (if I didn’t fly, I didn’t eat) teaching doctors and college students alike. After that, I could have been hired by some of the smaller airlines, but the ones I wanted to work for were still out of reach. No problem, knew that when I started as well.
So I flew freight for a year. Flew at night, through rediculous weather, in airplanes that were old before I was even born. Had a blast, darn near killed myself a few times, and earned about the same as I did instructing. That was fine, I did it for the experience. Well, that compay decided that times were tough, there was less freight to fly, and that my services were no longer needed, but that’s cool, because I finally have the hours and experience to fly for a better airline.
Well, the majors still won’t even talk to me, as I expected, so I get a job with a regional airline. After all the dues I had to pay (nothing compared to the guys and gals coming form the military, I have no illusions), I’m taking a pay cut from my previous two jobs. I might be at the same company as cyrcadian, becuase I will also earn 20,700 this year, while being away from home 20 days a month.
You can not believe me if you wish, and you can say it’s my fualt, because I chose this profession. That’s all fine. However, I do not accept your ill-informed labels about my profession. If you really think it is as easy as you repeatedly claim, come on aboard, I’ll be happy to give you advice on flight schools. But, until you’ve spent you life working towards a profession, you are absolutely ill equipped to make judgements about those who have.
I have the utmost respect for doctors, I don’t think I could handle that kind of career, but I bristle at the idea that I have less responsibility for the lives of my passengers than a doctor for his patients. I have dedicated my professional life to ensuring that passengers can say they never hear of emergencies. That’s because we do our jobs correctly. I don’t need sympathy for the plight of my career, I don’t need admiration and awe, I don’t even need applause after a landing. What I do need, no less than you would demand, is your/passengers trust that I’m doing everything I can to do my job correctly. I would never tell you that your job is easy, because I don’t know the first thing about it. I would never tell my fiance, that her job as a pharmacist is easy, not only because she would kill me, but because I don’t know anything about the job. I don’t even judge the fry cook at Wendy’s, cause I’m a terrible cook, and have never tried it.
You (Sean, too) have every right to be upset when my company doesn’t deliver what it said it would. Regardless of what you paid, my company didn’t do it’s job. However, that IN NO WAY excuses the passengers abuse of the very people who want to get that flight going the most. The flight crew didn’t need smiling faces, and I’m willing to bet all 20,700 that they didn’t refuse because of the booing alone. They just needed the passengers to accept that “we don’t like the situation either”, and that we are going to try to do everything they can to rectify the problem. It was a dropped ball, but booing and becoming distruptive is NOT THE ANSWER.

Lastly, a flight crew, including the pilots secluded in the cockpit, should never fly stressed, or distracted. I just takes a few seconds of thinking, “well, I know I probably shouldn’t do this, but we’re real late, and everyone’ll be real angry if I don’t, so…” to end up like AA191 in Little Rock.

Correction, American Airlines 1420 in Little Rock, my mistake.

Sorros you’re an idiot!!!! And you call yourself a personal friend to 2 flight attendants and then turn around a bash their jobs the way you did!!!! Sounds like you tried to become an attendant yourself but was REJECTED!!!!! Don’t hate!!!

I don’t see how the airlines do it — fuel charges being what they are. I am a working stiff, not rich, and I fly 9-12 trips a year — I would gladly pay $100-$200 more per ticket and have things go back to the good old days where you get good service, friendly (not tired and overworked) flight crews, free meals, etc. But the airlines are afraid to raise their prices thinking it will hurt their business — HELLO? What’s hurting the airlines business is cheap prices. Raise your prices, give your employees a decent wage for the sometimes very dangerous jobs they perform, and give back some perks to us passengers. The public can’t complain — they wanted cheap prices, and now they are reaping what they sowed. Only thing, after you raise your prices, don’t put all of the profits into management bonuses like you have done multiple times over the past couple of years. Charge us more, give us more, and pay your people more to put up with us!!!

[...] Posted by Deez340 Breitbart.tv American Airlines Cancels Flight Due to Hostile Passengers PAX heckle crew, get to stay in MIA a little longer Back in the days of eastern, pilots would [...]

The bottom line is that this happened b/c of mistreatment and contentiousness OVER TIME w/in American. the work forces are often at odds with each other– and gate agent vs pilot/flight crew is a big battle that management has not done well at mitigating.
In the end- a strong captain and caring flight crew and gate agents could have kept these passengers informed and calm– w/o knowing the details, i’d imagine that they didn’t care to do any of that.
They don’t care to b/c they have been scr^wed at every turn and not backed up by management in most situations. Especially if they were blindsided by the contentious situation. For passengers: there IS a proper way to behave aboard a 100′ metal tube that will be flying 500knots 6 miles above the earth. You can’t have people acting that way. You can’t have a mob on board an airplane. But my point is that as good of a leader as most pilots and crews are- they probably could have changed the situation– if they weren’t tapped out by the hundred other ways that passenger’s pissed on them in conjunction w/ their management.
Make no mistake– this was not just about this one flight– this was the straw that broke the camel’s back for this particular crew and has it’s roots in bad leadership and management from AA for many years.

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