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NBC Political Analyst Launches Rage Attack on Romney’s ‘Religion’ Speech |
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another example of extremism and self absorbed, self righteous
vitriole.
the notion of tolerance is to “tolerate” those with whom we do NOT agree.
this is hate speech.
just because it is directed at a white, upper middle class christian does not make it any less so.
This goes to show you that their is a bias against the GOP by NBC when they have to attack a whole religion. First of all how can this person be employed by NBC, he doesn’t even know what he is talking about. Please don’t ask him any questions from “Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader” he might miss the first question.
NBC has really put their anti religious bigotry on display for everyone to see. I really hope GE sells NBC and the new owners fire most of these jerks. Was a fan of Heros, but I’ve decided I can live without it, along with anything else on NBC.
[...] Lowell notes below, Hugh Hewitt asked up on his show Friday if we thought Romney had put The Question to bed with last [...]
For the record, the Mormon Church vehemently OPPOSED slavery, which was a key reason for their expulsion from Missouri.
New game plan: Everyone claim to be a Muslim. NBC will be paralyzed, unable to do anything but endorse your ‘campaign of peace.’
EXACTLY why this police officer put down his gun and picked up his musical instruments. I wrote 11 politically edgy tunes, and NBC won’t like them–neither will Hillary or the Ward Churchill crowd. Just in time for Christmas @
O’Donnell is a Leftist extremist who hates all religions and all conservatives because they impede his dream of socialist totalitarianism in the USA.
Remember, this is the same guy who after Kerry’s loss in 2004 called for secession of the blue states (on the very same show).
Why NBC hasn’t dumped this ranting fool is beyond me.
O’Donnell is angry about something and his ranting is just a symptom of the whole problem. Or he’s angry at himself for not being a better Christian. Perhaps he’s angry about having to be marginalized by playing some part on an insignificant show that he doesn’t understand. Perhaps his ancestors were slaveholders, or maybe he has some Mormon relative he’s unhappy about–should we take a look? No, let’s not bother. Joseph Smith was not in favor of slavery. He never owned a slave. Mitt Romney IS a good man–maybe one of the best that the GOP has to offer this go ’round.
I’ve been truly surprised by all the venom spewed at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I did not realize there was so much animosity toward their church in this day and age.
More so, I’m astonished at the public displayed of ignorance. Believe me, if I were to speak on any topic, I’d surely do some research.
Thankfully, I did gain one thing from this panel. I’m reminded of the saying, “Shouting is the sign of a weak mind straining to be heard.”
The leftist nuts are Unhinged!NBC is laying off more employees Why? Because of Atheist like O’Donnell who hates anyone who believes in GOD!The Atheist NBC Empire is Crumbling and that’s a good thing.USA USA USA!!!!!!!
Wow!….O’Donnell is quite “off the rocker” in his ranting. I wish i could have seen this whole thing in its’ entirety. To say the religion is racist based on its theories about African-American’s and the Priesthood of God…well he should take a trip and visit the millions of members in Africa! And as serving as a missionary in Germany, i taught about the church’s view about African Americans and the priesthood several times and i never encountered the fury that was displayed on this panel! Thumbs down O’Donnell and Thumbs Down NBC!
I’m a conservative, and this lib is dead right. Mormons also believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers. Should I not be offended by that? But I knew this day would come. I thought the dems would start the morman attacks after Romney won the nomination. Wait till a lib asks Romney about his magic underwear. No kidding. Then he will look like a real nut.
One other thing, I read the biography of a woman who was there when mormonism was started. Mormons were run out of Missouri because they were a bunch of crooks. Cattle rustling, counterfieting, etc. Joseph Smith had been arrested many times before he started mormonism.
Rosie’s husband(O’Donnell) fits in perfectictly to NBC and the liberal game plan…are we really surprised of this talk? This is just the opening salvo of what is to come from nbc,cbs,abc,cnn,and on and on.Romney would be a pro america president and continue the growth of this nation that president Bush has so keenly done despite Al Quiata,and the liberal Democrats(homegrown al quiata)May I suggest we prey to what ever God you deem fit for a Romney presidency. Good nite and God bless
Jesus said “slave obey thy master.” Should all the Christian candidates be made to disavow Christ? And mohammed himself owned countless slaves. Would O’Donnell have Obama disavow mohammed? (that was a joke)
NBC is full of anti-Christian bigots. They just usually never get called out on it.
Someone should have reminded him that the Jim Crow era in the South was almost totally dominated by Democrat politicians.
I watched that rant yesterday, an was so shocked by it, I thought the rest of the panel was in shock as well. However, this is not the first time that O’Donnell has blown his cool. He was asked by Joe Scarborough of MSNBC, the show he no longer has in that time slot, to not return for blowing up against another guest. Where is the moral outcry that got Don Imus fired, this rant was far worse then what Imus said. To trash someones religion in the manner in which he did, is reprehensible. NBC has gone so far Left, not running ads to support the troops, they trash an insult the office of the Presidency. We should boycott MSNBC like they did against Imus. Shame on O’Donnell.
Pat Buchanan – “My great-grandfather has slaves.”
Priceless!
Who is this guy and what kind of background does he have to speak about the Mormon faith?
One of the reasons the LDS people were driven from the East was in no small part due to them being abolitionists. Black people were never treated as inferior members. They could join the LDS Church at any time, but were not given the Priesthood.
This reporter is obviously getting his data from a book called, Mormon Doctrine, in which the author, one of the Twelve Apostles of the Church, claimed that the black people were not as valiant in the war in Heaven. Prior to his death he later rescinded his words, stating very clearly, “I was wrong.”
This is the only place I have ever seen or even heard of this particular element. It is not, nor has it ever been an article of the LDS faith.
As a final note, pay close attention to the explosion in LDS Church membership throughout Africa. I’m willing to bet that they don’t have the same hatred of Mormons as this man has fueled.
I am DONE with NBC. The fact that this guy has not been fired speaks volumes about NBC’s agenda. He is out of control and should be given 10 minutes to clear out his office and hit the bricks.
No more NBC in this household – EVER again.
B’bye!
No passion against the goofy and mentally deranged world and beliefs of radical Islam? Ah, I know why, Mormons don’t cut throats. Christians don’t cut throats. Radical Muslims do. Cowards.
Wear a burqa for peace. Democrats and NBC want fair and just masters for the people of the party. Here is a simple solution for so called terrorism….. convert to Islam! This will be a Democratic Party platform.
Good thing he did not call Mormans “Nappy Headed Ho’s” or NBC might have fired him.
Sorry guys, the Mormon faith is a kooky religion on a par with Scientology. Are all you who are defending Mormonism also defending Scientology? Please clarify.
Also clarify if Romney’s Mormon faith also includes:
1. The erroneous assertion that Native Americans descended from Semite Jews (DNA evidence has disproved this fact).
2. That the earth at the time of Jesus’s birth was only 44 generations old or under 10,000 years old (geologic, fossil, astrophysical evidence disproves this assertion).
3. That magic or sacred underwear can protect you from the devil.
4. That Jesus is the brother of Satan. Nowhere in the Bible can you find this.
5. That the Garden of Eden was in Missouri (recent archaeological evidence using satellite photography suggests that it was in the Sinai Penninsula).
6. That the Golden Tablets Joseph Smith purported to find magically vanished to absolve them fromt he rigors of Carbon14 dating, while the transcription of the tablets did survive.
7. That African-Americans have black skin due to some slight against God that their souls comitted in heaven.
If Tom Cruise were running for president, most of you posting here defending Romney would be really savaging Cruise’s religous beliefs for being a bit kooky.
Does the fact that Mormonism has survived since the 1830’s absolve it from its “kookiness” factor just because it survived so long?
Sorry Santa, I can’t reply to your comment since satellite photography has proven that you do not live at the North pole. Also, I need to go tell my kids that they can never grow up to be President because they believe in you.
Rebuttal to Santa:
(Full disclosure, I am LDS)
1) Why should there be a need to have DNA evidence? Do we ask all Jews if they are Jewish enough? There is no indication in the Book of Mormon about the lineage of the sons and daughters of Ishmael. Upon the lack of evidence in the record there can be no assertion about the lineage of the nations describe in the book through DNA. Also, DNA lineage tracing is not definitive nor precise. Look at African Americans doing DNA testing to provide insight on their backgrounds. In a recent NYT article one man found numerous numbers of peoples that these services claimed he belonged to.
2) Do you realize that most Mormons believe in evolution? Mitt’s hand never went up when that question on not believing Darwin’s theory was asked in the debates months ago. At the church’s own university they have some of the best paleontologists in the nation because Utah is chock-full of archaeological sites with dinosaur bones. In fact the biology professors at BYU think ‘Intelligent Design’ is ridiculous. Please don’t paint Mormonism with the same stroke as Sola Scriptura evangelicals.
3) And priests wear robs, nuns with their conservative dresses, John the baptist with camel hair, Jews and their skullcaps, Aaron and the Levites with their shields that had 12 precious stones. Mormonism seems pretty universal in having religious clothing that is important and sacred. Yes, we believe garments provide protection as long as we hold them sacred. Since they are sacred Romney will never answer if he wears them.
4) Well, if Mormons believe that we are ALL sons and daughters of God, that makes my second cousin who ran a porn video rental shop my brother as well as your brother too. Sure it does suck to have a family relative who has most certainly rebelled against God. Makes it worse to know that doesn’t it? I know, I know, it is heretical because it is extrabiblical about Satan, but us being all one family is biblical enough.
5) Well, yes. But about your satellite claim. A satellite image proves what? I need more facts. Just because new technology is used it must mean it is right. On what grounds do the images prove? Which scientists, what journal, which university, what were they looking for? Please, more.
6) They vanished before three were others were given a vision to see the plates and eight others who handled it as well. Oh, and another woman saw it coincidentally as well (not well known among Mormons, only a recent discovery). Again, where is there evidence to support that Christ was crucified on a cross? Was it a tree? A post? Where is the carbon dating evidence to prove that Peter was killed in Rome? Look, Mormon theology is under greater scientific scrutiny than early Christianity. Great, isn’t it?
7) See the statement by Fletch above. There was a policy in place, and Mormons tried to explain why it was there. We had no explanation why they were given the priesthood in the early years and then the members were told they would not longer be bestowing the priesthood on black members. Policy =/ doctrine. The prevailing thought of the day in the 19th century seemed like a good explanation (mark of Cain, etc.). The idea just got re-purposed as a Mormon myth. It was a prevailing theory, but never adopted as fact.
Oh my gosh a prophet spoke to an ass? Jesus walked on water? Muhammad spoke with god? Kookiness indeed. Look everywhere you want, but be kind to who you know and how you ask it.
Yes, Mormonism is pretty goofy… we have our own planets, wives must obey so husband will call them from their own grave to become eternally pregnant to provide bodies for souls… yep. But not as goofy as some of the beliefs of liberalism…. see link below.
But, that is not the issue. We have freedom of religion in this country. Only liberals would disqualify someone because of their faith.
Gates:
1. If you know about tracing lineage through DNA genetic markers, you would know that DNA does not lie. The fact remains, the DNA evidence supports that Native Americans were of Asian heritage, not Semitic Jewish heritage. Do not straw man the argument. This is not about “jewish enough”, this is about a population not having any DNA markers that would prove Joseph Smith’s theory.
2. Straw man argument again. So the LDS employs some of the world’s best paleontologists at their universities since they want to have diverse thought on their campus, what does that have to do with LDS religious doctrine? Evolution is a separate set of facts versus the age of the earth according to Mormon doctrine. I never mentioned evolution. Answer the question, according to LDS doctrine, how old is the earth or the universe?
3. Nice turn of equating magic underwear with priestly garments or yarmukles that remind the faithful of their commitment to God. However, does the LDS not teach that the magic underwear confer special powers among the annointed? Yes or no. The priestly garments of other religions and jewish religious garb just signify a commitment, not a “do not enter sign” for the wearer with regards to the devil.
4. No, it does not make sense. In that case, all the people of the earth, all the animals of the earth, angels in heaven, and devils below are all sons & daughters of God using such extra-biblical logic. Clearly the Bible does not say this nor do any of the Jewish religious texts on the subject. Also explicit using such logic is that Jesus is not special in any way except as a product of God in engaging in a sex act with Mary, which is what the LDS also teaches.
5. In the book of Genesis there are certain geographical markers given for where Eden was. Using satellite imaging, one can find the extinct rivers in Sinai, not Missouri.
6. OF course LDS theology is under greater scrutiny than early Christian theology. Look at the time differetnial involved. 1830’s AD versus circa 0 AD. One was a primitive time where much was lost in many wars, the other was an age of science, preservation, and reason. It is not unreasonable to expect a religous “find” such as the tablets to be as preserved as say the US Constitution in terms of documents of importance.
7. The fact that it took until 1978 for this policy to be “unadopted” means that Romney should still be able to be asked his thoughts on this policy since it was still in force when he professed his faith as well as that of his father.
There is the fantastical claims of religion such as the ones you posted at the end of your posting, and then there are just plain untrue things that can be proven as such.
Of kook religions, beliefs such Native Americans were the descendants of Jews are easy to disprove with science. Others such as being the god of your own planet when you die rank right up there with puzzling beliefs that, as a leader of the free world, might tint your view of the value of life over the fear of death in establishing policy.
Oh, I thought you wanted sincere answers to the questions (i.e. you wanted an opinion or were willing to learn). Instead you waited for a response so you could say the answers you wanted to hear in the first place. Basically asking a question with little regard to the answer.
*Gotcha*
:)
Mamma said: “Yes, Mormonism is pretty goofy… we have our own planets, wives must obey so husband will call them from their own grave to become eternally pregnant to provide bodies for souls… yep. But not as goofy as some of the beliefs of liberalism….But, that is not the issue. We have freedom of religion in this country. Only liberals would disqualify someone because of their faith.”
I would concur that some beliefs of liberalism are goofy, however that does not discount the fact some of the beliefs of the LDS are not only goofy but in terms of the Native American’s heritage, just plain wrong when held up to the light of scientific fact. And that is an issue if you are going ot be president, what respect do you have for scientific fact versus your own “personal faith”?
Are you also endorsing Scientology as a non-kooky religion then? Please clarify.
We do have freedom of religion in this country. That also means that we can hold up as a standard that if you believe such things as either 72 virgins are going to join you in paradise after your righteous life or that you are going to be god of your own planet at the end of your righteous life, then we the people can say that you are not fit to carry the nuclear football as President of the US with such beliefs that may affect your judgement on life & death matters.
Gates: I did want answers and am willing to learn. But you also had to expect that, as an inquiring mind, I was not going to necessarily accept or agree to LDS doctrine, nor accept rhetorical devices to steer the argument, nor accept just plain Fox News-like spin as indisputable answers without posing more questions.
I apologise if you think I was playing “gotcha” with you, I wasn’t. Though I did want answers that did not do an Irish jig around the issues concerning some of LDS’s belief systems which are NOT the same as the belief system of Judeo-Christian heritage… which Mr. Romney purported as being congruent when they are not.
I think some of the people posting here about O’Donnell’s rant think we need to equate all religious teaching as not being held up to some scrutiny, but some of these people will then slam Scientology or the adherents’ of Jim Jones’ “Jonestown” movement as kooks without really examining their personal lines of demarcation concerning which belief systems are for kooks.
As a country that was founded by religous kooks (in the Church of England’s eyes), we should be mature enough to engage in such enquiry and evaluation, at least with respect to how a potential leader’s belief system may shape his thoughts on policy.
Mormonism consists of a guy who received teachings from God by putting his head in a top hat.
Dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum
Dear Santa, I think people are upset about this issue because the Mormons in the senate on the dems side have not been questioned about their ability to govern with “kooky” beliefs. This looks more like anti- conservative than a religion thing. Santa are you worried he would try and impose salvery again??? You know there was a grand wizard in washington, (also dem). I myself am a born again Christian. Last word Santa would you please see if you could get BMW to release the M3 for sale in the USA. Thanks and Merry Christmas to all..
I think mormonism is from Satan, but I’ll vote for Romney if he is the candidate.
Where’s the ranting and hate speech over Reid? He is Mormon also isn’t he? Oh thats right but he is a Democrat different set of media rules apply. I would vote for a Mormon before voting for a member of the Religion of Liberalism. NBC has been losing credability for awhile now this idiotic display of hate will only add to it.
Mormons actually believe Joseph Smith?
It’s a matter of logic, the first man and woman lived in Missouri and Native Americans came from Jerusalem?
And the only thing they have to back up those claims is a dude who read stories out of a hat and couldn’t do it again when the original “translations” were lost.
I guess if you can believe that, you can believe that corporations have our best interests at heart and we should just let them treat workers, consumers, and the earth as they please. You could also believe, then, that Saddam was a part of 9/11.
Santa is playing an old game where he tells us what Mormons believe, and we have to prove him wrong. No Santa, it is Mormons who know what they believe and you should be asking us, not telling us. I am not the President of the Church, but have been an active member for fifty-seven years. Point by point rebuttal.
Mormons do not believe that all Native Americans are of the tribe of Israel, and the DNA research so far has not proven that all Native Americans are Asian.
Where did you get that quote that the earth is only 44 generations old. Reference please. There is no official Mormon doctrine on the age of the earth. Mormons definitely do not believe that it is only seven thousand years old. Most of them believe that it is millions of years old.
Show me any quote that Mormon Garments have any magical power other than the fact that they are sacred reminders of Covenants. Although some Mormons might believe this, it is definitely not an official doctrine of the Church. How much magical powere has been attributed to the cross to the point of killing vampires?
Mormons definitely do believe that God’s word is not limited to the Bible. So if we believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers based on other scriptures, that is something we just have to agree to disagree on. We do not believe that it demeans Jesus in anyway. He is the only begotten Son Of God in the flesh and the Saviour of all mankind. That is pretty special
The Bible does not have a map of the Garden of Eden. It simply names rivers flowing out of other rivers. If satellite imagery finds some similar geography, this is evidence, but definitely not proof. It is no more proof than similar geography in Central America proves the Book of Mormon is true.
Archaeologists state that there is not a shred of evidence for the Exodus, one of the most important events in the Old Testament. I believe it in spite of lack of evidence. Some claim that they have found the bones of Jesus proving he wasn’t resurrected. Do you believe them or do you have faith? Where are the Stone Tablets that the Ten Commandments were written on. Surely the Israelites would have kept something so sacred.
Atheists and agnostics will tell you that every criticism of Mormonism as being strange and unbelievable also applies to traditional Christianity. You can only see your side of the issue, and that is what causes intolerance.
A believer
Incredible that O’Donnell is so intolerant. His animosity toward religion, especially the mormons, is totally sick. This guy needs to research before he speaks. I’ve read in a mormon church history book that Joseph Smith sold his horse to free a friend of his that was a slave.
I’ve a dozen or so really close friends that are mormons and I have to admit that they are all wonderful, deeply religious, tolerant Christians… And Romney, that guy seems like the cream of the crop. I’ll vote for him if he gets the nomination.
The most worrisome thing about mormons is their staunchly held belief that they are right and all others are wrong. This is ingrained in them from childhood through daily “priesthood” meetings.
They are taught that they are better than everyone else because they have the “truth”. I have seen them shun family members and divide loyalties in a most viscous and arrogant manner.
They most certainly are not “tolerant”. They are taught slick public relations and how to make a presentation. They really are good at it. If you are around them enough you recognize the speech patterns, verbage and demenor immediately.
They believe that their leaders can have instructional visons. This is not something the American president should be lead by. If he is a true Mormon he can not put anything ahead of his church and his beliefs.
Roy W.: OK, suppose I do take all your LDS doctrine at face value…
Are you then saying in the spirit of “religious diversity” that Mormons are asking for in leeway of some of their more worrisome beliefs for a leader to believe in (i.e. elders having visions that the faithful must heed, all confirmed faithful being “priests”, being “god” of your own planet when you die), that we the US public should also accept as non-cult beliefs such “true religious doctrines” as Wahhabiism, Branch Davidianism, Scientology, & the Sola Scriptura evangelicals’ beliefs? Where is the line that should be drawn with regards to religious beliefs for an elected official in your opinion?
Please, inquiring minds want to know how much religious diversity the American populace should have with regards to religous beliefs in our elected leaders as one man’s kooky cult is another’s respected religious doctrine?
While a theology ltimus test is not ideal, knowing if there is an oath of fealty to an elder who communicates directly with God infallibly or rewards the faithful supposedly for dying in the service of the faith is certainly within the rights of the electorate to discover if this is part of your personal faith, whether the candidate is Democrat or Republican or Independent.
The rationale that because Harry Reid isn’t asked these questions, that it should somehow give Mitt Romney a pass on such religious questions is ludicrous & small minded. They should both be asked these questions. The difference being of course that only Harry Reid’s electorate and the Democratic majority need to worry about him, while the nation needs to worry about Mitt Romney if he does the Irish jig around these questions.
After all, if Romney wants to carry the nuclear football amongst the other powers of the President, questions about his faith should not be stressful to him compared to the powers he would be inheriting in the Constitution, which are greater than that of the Senate majority leader.
If David Berkowitz believed that God talked to him through a German Shepherd and told him to shoot people, should we believe this is divine revelation or just plain kookiness? That is the slippery slope of “religious diversity”.
I have read some of the most ridiculous statements and ideas here. I am not LDS but half of my family are members of that faith. None of them have “shunned” me. I have the highest regard for the LDS because they believe in the strength of the family and have morals. I believe Mitt Romney is a moral man who has the strength of faith and family behind him. Who cares if his faith believes in wearing garments? Are you now going to ridicule my Catholic faith for our belief in Holy Water? Every faith has some strange (to the outsider) practices. Mr. Romney shouldn’t be judged on the details of his faith. Judge the man and not his faith.
Well Santa, if the Mormon Prophet told me to shoot somebody, I wouldn’t do it. I would know it is not from God. But I am not worried about it, because the Mormon Prophet never has and never will tell me to do such a thing. But how is that different than somebody feeling that God wants him to invade Iraq? Oops, that already happened didn’t it. Since almost every President has believed in God, and claim that they pray, then isn’t there always a possibility that they believe that God wants them to do something crazy. You will never get away from that. Perhaps we should only elect atheists. But maybe they will claim that Dick Cheney wants them to invade Iran. So it really boils down to the caracter of the person you are voting for and you look at their life and the decisions they have made and then you make yours. If they have made good decisions, then religion should not be a factor.
I noticed not protests against Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader (Democrat) who is also a Mormon. So is Oren Hatch. Also, both Mitt and his father George have records of governance. Can any Mormon irregularities be pointed to?
I think there is more fear of serious competition to Lawrence’s dear Democrats from a
well qualified, accomplished businessman and govenor that is at the root of this rant. I do not think he can point to any such occurances, so take the usual Democratic solution, personal attack. It is informative to see how visciously an anti relgious attack can be launched against a leading presidential candidate or a sitting president or vice president but there is nothing but tolerance for Muslims who are trying to kill us. Lets vote for them to protect us.
that nbc analyst is a raving lunatic. he is as arrogant and close minded as anybody i’ve ever seen. what could be worse? well, he’s also very wrong about his entire point: that mormonism is a racist religion. to the best of my knowledge, although joseph smith may have had multiple wives, he never had a slave. furthermore, one of the reasons that mormons were so despised and distrusted was because they didn’t believe in or practice slavery, which was probably perfectly OK with the ancestors of this o’donnell nutcase. ironic?
It’s ironic that O’donnell “plays a Mormon on TV.” I’ve never watched Big Love, but you have to question the political (and yes, religious) motivations of casting someone so obviously anti-Mormon to play a Mormon character.
This seems to be a given in Hollywood: Casting against type in regards to conservatives. When West Wing was on the air I found it amazing that they cast Alan Alda (an avowed liberal) to play the Republican candidate for President. Similarly in “An American President,” Richard Dreyfuss plays the Republican candidate.
If an actor chooses to keep his/her politics private, I don’t mind. But when he takes an active role in politics, it really shows Hollywoods bias to see all the conservative roles filled by avowed liberals. (Oh yeah, and the Mormon role filled by an obviously avowed anti-Mormon.)
Has anybody brought up the fact that the mormons believe that God was once a man, and that if you are a good mormon you too can be a god of your own planet someday? Isn’t that enough to make people think that this guy would not be a good president? Did you know there are secret rituals that are preformed in the mormon temples?
Ben Franklin said it best “It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.” This O’Connell is truly a fool.
Political analyst? C’mon NBC.
Where did they get this nut-job? If he would actually do his homework, he would know that one of the MANY reasons the Mormon Church was persecuted, in the 1830’s and 40’s, (and especially in Missouri, a slave state), was because they were Abolitionists. Also, blacks were NEVER denied MEMBERSHIP in the church, they were only the Priesthood, or the ability to lead a congregation.
IN ANY CASE, “CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NOT LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION…”
HAVE WE FORGOTTEN THAT?
Pat is an old fool that has beeen duped. All the talk in the world will not stop the South from voting against a leader with this belief system. Romney talk about the faith of his father’s is an attempt to appear Christian even though he is not.
The point of this discussion, I thought, was the bigotry of this O’Donnell person not the points of belief of the faith of Mitt Romney. What disgusting comments! Comments like these are hurled at the LDS church daily and very few stand up to say, “I don’t care about the tenets of the faith. On the whole the people of this faith are good, charitable, and kind. Why do we as a nation tolerate such bigotry?” Members are so good at turning the other cheek that people feel fine about continuing to slap.
Tony:
You are absolutely right that mormons believe in what is called eternal progression. “as god is, man once was, as god is, man may become.” Is that any more difficult to swallow than the nuances of the nicean creed. God is infinite in form, one being but three beings, occupying all space but no space, everywhere and nowhere, etc. Also, do not confuse secret with sacred. The “rituals” you speak of consist only of commitments made between God and the person making the commitment. Nothing crazy, and nothing that isn’t done in other religions. It is not discussed outside the temple because mormons view it as sacred and existing only between God and the parishoner, not because virgins are being sacrificed or bread is turning into the actual body of Christ. The point is, or should be, that “by their fruits, ye shall know them.” Look at the positive force for good the LDS church is in the world, then look at the life of Mitt Romney, then decide who to vote for.
To: RBliss, just to clarify, he does not play a mormon on tv, he plays a polygamous. Polygamy in the mormon church has been abolished for over a century.
Santa:
Good questions. You can read more for answers at http://www.mormon.org
Hallelujah – finally someone who has done his homework and understands the doctrine of Mormonism. Lawrence O’Donnell is right on the money! There is a difference between scandal and doctrine. I cannot support a candidate for the office of the Presidency (Rommney) who would be so gullible as to believe one of the largest scams in human history – Mormonism. Anyone who has researched religions knows that most of the rituals in Mormonism were adopted from the Free Masons. It would be nice if Mormons were taught to question and think for themselves and stop relying on “feelings” as to whether their religion is true or not. You see, the standard of what is true or not is not our own hearts or our feelings; it is the WORD of God. The Bible makes no requirement that we pray about whether it is true or not, because our belief, or lack thereof, is not what makes it true or not. Jer.17:9 says, “The heart is deceitful above all things”. Prov. 28:26 says, “He who trusts in his own heart is a fool”. and 1 John 4 says, “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God because many false prophets have gone out into the world”. You see, every archeological find in the Middle East has lined up exactly as told of in the Bible, but NO archeological evidence has been found regarding the roots of Mormonism. Mormons are terribly deceived by the Great Deceiver himself and we must pray the veil will be lifted. God said, “Thou shall have no other gods before me”.
The ultimate blaspheme against God is to believe oneself can be a god. Amen
If O’Donnell has such unbelieveable hatred for the LDS church and its members, why does he play one on “Big Love?”
I guess he can be bought.
Too bad that NBC aired this – and too bad everyone is so hung up on something that is specifically forbidden in our Constitution – a religious test.
As I understand it, the racial doctrine Mr. O’Donnell references are those held by an extreme fundamentalist branch of LDS which the “mainstream” LDS church separated itself from long before 1978. Wouldn’t his insistence on associating Mr. Romney with this subset of Mormonism be the the equivalent of associating any Christian candidate with some fundamentalist church that has KKK members among their membership?
It is frustrating to see people snip back and forth over these things. There is a part of me that gets frustrated to see people like Santa who have all of these arguments worked out in their mind. And I wonder why we LDS members feel the need to try and take something we hold so sacred and even discuss it with someone who holds no regard or respect for it. Shame on you LDS members who enter into these “Thunderdome-Fact-Slinging” matches. Do they benefit anyone? I understand the feeling of wanting to clarify misunderstandings, but if a person has taken that much time to write up all of these “accusations” about why we’re nutty, is there really anything you’re going to say that will sway them?
Santa, I’m not interested in you telling me about what I believe as a Mormon. Because what you think I believe, and what I truly believe are two very different things, and it’s insanity to argue with your position. Your ideas of my beliefs seem to be based in a thinking error I must have because I “blind” myself to all of your studied out “facts”. But none of these ideas you bring up are important to me. And by my admission to that, I’m sure you’ll laugh and say that I prove some “Mormon ignorance”. And that is okay for you to do.
Here’s the thing. I’m not interested in a person like Santa telling everyone what “someone else” believes. When I have a question about what a person believes, I’ll ask that person, not Santa down the block. There is always someone out there willing to give you their opinion about what everyone else believes. Because it’s easy, you proclaim yourself an expert and go to town. I don’t see Santa out here putting up all of his sacred held belief system. He spends all of his time in the safe zone of discussing (rather incorrectly) what others think.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I have grown up in a loving family, with parents who did their best to teach me right from wrong. I was taught about Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for my sins. I believe that Joseph Smith did translate the Book of Mormon. I believe in the Bible as the word of God. I have been taught my whole life by my church leaders about sacrifice and service for others, regardless of who they are. I have a loving wife and beautiful children that I love with all of my heart. And I am happy. Those are my beliefs. And not only that, I’m attaching my real name to this post…so everyone can know it. I’m not naming myself a fictional character like Santa.Can you take these beliefs away from me? No.
If Santa is happy believing what he/she believes, then fine. I feel they might miss the point of what I’m trying to say. I can’t speak for any Catholic or Muslim or Jewish person out their about their beliefs, and I wouldn’t try to tell you about what they believe. So Santa, why don’t you do us all a favor, be part of a solution. If you don’t believe in my faith, that’s okay. How about you try and help people by explaining to them what you have to offer…be it beliefs or philosophy. If you don’t feel the Mormon faith is true, that’s great and fine. Show people what you feel is true. Light a candle instead of cursing the darkness of the Mormon faith as you see it.
Now I know what will happen with me having said all of this. Santa will study out what I’ve said, and he’ll find one word in here to work on, or one phrase. Or he’ll just bring up another argument about why Mormons are kooky, or nutty. I expect that. Cool…go for it. I wonder if he or she would be willing to write a post that explains their philosophy of life or religion without using it in any reference to the Mormon faith. In other words, if you’re an athiest, explain why you believe that. If you’re a Baptist…go for it. Anything that explains your system of beliefs and doesn’t make any reference to the LDS faith. Know what I’d do after that? Absolutely nothing but respect you for putting your beliefs up there for everyone to understand.
Speaking against something is far different that standing up for something. I’d be interested in seeing what you stand up for, and not what you rally against.
I am not a Mormon Church spokesman. I am an individual member.
It is unfortunate indeed that Lawrence O’Donnell has carried the baton to again perpetuate some grossly inaccurate stereotypes/prejudices about Mormons and Mormon History.
First, the silliness; “I’m not a mormon but I play one on TV.” (He later claims the “BIG LOVE” series on Home Box Office.) This is a portrayal of a splinter group of “Fundamentalists” who are in no way affiliated with the 21st or even 20th century “Mormon” church. So O’Donnell does not play a Mormon in the modern mainstream. He plays the a TV character who was either born into, or joined an apostate splinter group that has no ecclesiastical connection with the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Second: He claims it is “A Racist Faith” and that until 1978 Black people were not allowed to belong to the Mormon Church. Mr. O’Donnell does not know about Jane Manning. Maybe he would like to read about Jane Manning here; http://www.meridianmagazine.com/people/050415jane.html .
Quoting Jane: “And I want to say right here that my faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is as strong today — nay, it is if possible stronger — than it was the day I was first baptized. I pay my tithes and offerings, keep the Word of Wisdom. I go to bed early and arise early. I try in my feeble way to set a good example to all.†Baptism has always been the way to join the Mormon Church. Paying “tithes and offerings” and keeping “the Word of Wisdom” is another indication that Jane was a Mormon. Jane was born in 1822. The Mormon church was not formally organized until 1830.
Manning describes meeting and living with Joseph Smith and his family. If you were a racist would you allow the despised ones to live in your home? Manning also told of Smiths sharing with her and her family. O’Donnell’s name calling; “Racist” is hardly appropriate.
O’Donnell had a sliver of accuracy when he referred to a 1978 pivotal event in Mormon history. But there was a generous spin in his words. In 1978 men of all races, who were good members, became eligible to become mormon leaders or “hold the Priesthood”. But again, the Mormon church has always allowed Blacks as members. As far as the priesthood “segregation” goes the Mormons take this point of view: In ancient times European Whites and other non-Israeli’s were not allowed to hold the Priesthood. Mormons understand Priesthood history as being only for Israelis of the house of Levi and this during the Old Testament times. So fast forward to recently: In 1978 came the day when it was finally permitted for ALL worthy male members the world over, regardless of race, to hold the Priesthood. I am remembering that all Mormons I saw were thrilled at the good news.
Third: O’Donnell claims that Latter-day Saint founder Joseph Smith was a “…lying fraudulent criminal who was pro-slavery…” and that Mormonism was “…a pro-slavery religion”. For the slavery question, I would invite Mr. O’Donnell to browse the article, Prophet and the Presidency: Mormonism and politics in Joseph Smith’s 1844 Presidential campaign, The Journal of the Illinois State Historical Society, Summer 2000 by Wood, Timothy L . The author, Wood shows on page 9, that while Smith was not a staunch abolitionist, he was promoting a gradual freeing of the slaves, to be complete by 1850. (To me Smith was attempting again what the framers of the Constitution had tried and failed to do.) But in Wood’s article, there is nothing in it that even remotely indicates that Smith was pro-slavery. For Wood’s article: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3945/is_200007/ai_n8922399/pg_9
For more information about modern day Black Mormons, The Genesis Group please, visit: http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/
As far as O’Donnell’s comment that Smith was a “…lying fraudulent criminal” it is true that Smith was arrested over forty times, but he was never convicted. I think the tone and (again) name calling of O’Donnell’s comment say much about his understanding.
It astounds reasonable thinkers that O’Donnell is considered a respected political commentator and that McLaughlin would put such a silly man on. Such is much of Journalism today.
I agree with the comments of “Scootmaker” above.
1. Joseph Smith wanted to free the slaves by paying the southern states for their freedom.
2. He initially gave the priesthood to African Americans, they have and always have been able to be members of the LDS church. The restriction for all men to hold the priesthood was lifted in 1978.
3. I personally knew an African American, Novella Gibson who was the most loyal member of the LDS church I have ever met, before and after the 1978 revelation to Spencer Kimball for all men to hold the priesthood.
4. Scootmaker above makes several good points, among them about the LDS people being run out of Missouri by pro-slavery people.
5. Perhaps Mr. O’Donnell should try his rant in front of the BYU football team.
6. It also could be that Mr. O’Donnell was coached by HBO to throw his rant for publicity purposes, I have listened to him in the past on MSNBC and he has never impressed me with his left-wing non-scholarly attitude.
7. Usually, if sincere, when we see people like O’Donnell throw these types of hateful ravings we can be rest assured that things are not well in their personal lives.
8. People like O’Donnell, in their wrath and behavior, would most likely want to do away with all of us who do not fit into his left-wing philosophy.
O’Donnell speaks volumes for himself and the left-wing.
Someone should try reading Joseph Smiths 1844 presidential platform. It makes for a good read, but thats just me and i tend to like sources more than expert opinions so it may not appeal to some. here it is in full text if anyone cares;
http://olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1840s/1844Smit.htm
Back to the topic at hand…if anyone can remember…
What vial hatred that was allowed to sprew forth form a reporter. I hope he was severely diciplined, but, guess what, from NBC. HA. I don’t think so.
ANYONE with this kind of hatred toward a people, or a religion, should NEVER be asked his opinion to be displayed on national TV. Obviously they new about it before he went on the air. This was no accident.
All I can say is that it was a total embarassment to NBC. Maybe the didn’t feel it, but they should have.
First:Lawrence O’Donnell is an idiot. He does NOT play a Mormon on TV. He play’s a polygamist. Polygamy has been outlawed by the mormon church for over a century. If you are a polygamist you will be excommunicated from the mormon church. How can someone as thruoghly uninformed as him be given national TV coverage to spew such blatant untruths?
Just to let you know, as a person who grew up in the LDS church, but who does not believe in it really at all (talk about the “religion of my fathers”), the church does not believe that blackness comes from people turning away from God in heaven. According to the LDS church anyone who turned away from God in heaven was not given a chance on this earth, they went straight to hell with Satan. However, they do believe that blackness is the mark of Cain, the man who brought murder to this earth.
Now, as far as being a racist religion: Black people were allowed to be, and many were, members of the Mormon church prior to 1978. In 1978 black men were allowed to be bestowed with the preisthood. It should also be noted that the official stance of the Church, and of Joseph Smith was Abolutionist. For those of you out there like “No More Democrats”: that means they were against slavery. If you really want to start pointing fingers about racist religions why not include the Catholics, the Baptists, and every other protestant religion that existed in America while slavery was going on, claiming that the Bible says that black people are inferior, and slavery is thus OK. As a little aside. I live in Norh Carolina. The mormon church is about a mile from my house, and just up the street from it is a baptist church. As far as I can see there aren’t very many (any) Dixie flags on the Mormon bumpers, in the lot across the street there a couple actual flags flying out of the pick-up trucks. . .take it for what it is.
Why not also include the hatred, so extreme and vile, held by so many “religious men of God” that drove the Mormons through lynchings, rape, tar and featherings, and extorsion across the country to live outside of the United States in Utah (In Peace with their dark skinned brothers and sisters the Ute Indians). And why did these protestants reign down such terror on the mormons? Because they believe something just a little bit different. . .Very Christ-like behavior might I add. . .there’s something in the Bible about “doing unto the least of these my bretheren” . . .How does that verse end?
After seeing the utter drivel of O’donnell, I see the wisdom of the phrase “Ignorance, prejudice, and fear walk hand in hand.” I can also see why his performance on Big Love is so unconvincing to someone who knows better. Because he doesn’t even care to have a clue what he is talking about, but preferrs to regurgitate what his handlers tell him to, factual or not. Great Performance O’Donnell!
Lastly I would like to address those of you who posted before me: I am a registered independant, I am voting for Kucinich in the primary, I would also vote for Ron Paul. I am really interested in having a leader who isn’t already bought and paid for by the powers that be. I believe in the constitution; especially the part that separates Church from State. I think that people should be allowed to believe anything they want to believe about God. I think it is as ignorant to pose questions about Romney’s “Magical Underwear” as it was to pose questions about JFK’s “magical roseray beads” Is anyone going to ask Huckabee about how Jonah stayed alive in the belly of that whale for so long, or how he know’s that it was Jesus himself who gave him the big surge in the polls even after he pardoned a serial rapist to go out and do it again? Who cares anyway? ‘08 is going to be a landslide for the Democrats. I just wish all of this negative publicity about Mormonism would go away. It hurts to see all of these malicious lies and misrepresentations by people who don’t really have a clue. Especially by people who espouse their Liberal nature in politics. This election is supposed to be about substantive issues effecting our country today, not about Mormonism; All of you sound like a bunch of hippocrates. Are you for separation of church and state? Or not? Are you for freedom of choice? Or not? Do you think it takes all types to make the world go around? Or not? Are you in favor of muslims having the right to practice thier religion? Or not?. . . And you know that to this day they sill allow polygomy in their church. I would submit that you aren’t setting a very good example for future liberals, or really for the future of our country in general. Practice what you preach, or all you are doing is preaching!
News media organizations like NBC with management team members making such egregious and blatantly bigoted public statements on the public airwaves, and which do not censure the employee for making such statements, should undergo FCC action against their broadcasting licenses. NBC has a fiduciary trust, responsibility and accountability to the public for its use of the public airwaves, not the other way around. The airwaves should never be used as a “bully pulpit” for a news or broadcast organization to promulgate their religious bias against another religion as was the case with NBC. Apprarently NBC is no longer a credible source for news.
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This is not an attack on Romney’s speech. It is venomous anti-mormon attack. Where did NBC get this martext?